3 chip, HD (not tape), good low light at DVinfo.net

Ron Johnson · February 26th, 2008, 02:56 PM

Are there any clear winners in the 3-chip HD (1080x1920 actual pixels on the CCDs), low light category? My primary application will be for recording lectures, plays, events, concerts. Most of these happen indoors with poor lighting control - hence the interest in good low-light performance.

Strong preference for non-tape recording - so tired of tape...

Oh yes - cost < $6000.

Many thanks,
Ron Johnson
PDX, OR

Shawn McCalip · February 26th, 2008, 04:56 PM

As far as I know, your only option would be Sony's EX-1 camera. It's right at the ceiling of your budget, but it's the only 3-chip camera I know with 1920X1080 sensors. There really aren't all that many 1920X1080 sensors floating around out there. Most sensors are 1440X1080 or smaller.

Your desire for tapeless acquisition also really limits your options. You're stuck with the EX 1 by Sony, or with the HVX-200 by Panasonic. Instead of looking for a 100% tapeless camera, why not look for a tape-based camera that suits you, and then purchase something like a Firestore or equivalent external hard drive. You'd be able to have the benefit of recording your tape archive while at the same time recording to a hard drive for instant editing capabilities.

I'm currently editing a project that was shot with an HVX200, and I'm very unimpressed with it's low-light performance, not to mention the color. I'm sure some of this could be due to the actions of the camera operator, but it seems like it's not that far beyond current SD cameras

My two cents...

Ron Johnson · February 26th, 2008, 05:18 PM

Shawn -

You are right on the external HDD storage option - keeps slipping my mind as I want to minimize the # of components that need to get brought along, powered up and protected from loss/damage. But it does offer a lot of flexibility. (also, if something happens to the HDD, or the medium its contents were transferred to, then the original is still on tape - still a reasonably affordable mass storage medium)

So, if 'tapeless' is not a requirement, are there other good nominees?

thanks again

Kevin Shaw · February 26th, 2008, 11:37 PM

The EX1 is the clear choice based on your stated requirements, with nothing else comparable for the price at this time. In fact you pretty much described the niche the EX1 fills...

John Bosco Jr. · February 27th, 2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn McCalip

It's right at the ceiling of your budget, but it's the only 3-chip camera I know with 1920X1080 sensors. There really aren't all that many 1920X1080 sensors floating around out there. Most sensors are 1440X1080 or smaller.

Sensor size does not equate to sensor pixel count - corect terminology: 1440x1080 or less. And sensor pixel count does not always mean final output. For instance, the Sony V1U has 1920x1080 sensors, but records to tape 1440x1080. And what you didn't bring up is that the EX1 records the same 1440x1080 to its SxS cards because, like HDV, the XDCam codec is rectangular pixels, so 1440x1080 only at available higher bit rates. The EX1 and V1U, for that matter, are capable of recording the full 1920x1080 through HD-SDI for EX-1 and HDMI for V1U. The feature I believe that really sets the EX-1 apart from the rest is the larger 1/2 inch sensors.

Robert M Wright · February 27th, 2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bosco Jr.

Sensor size does not equate to sensor pixel count - corect terminology: 1440x1080 or less. And sensor pixel count does not always mean final output. For instance, the Sony V1U has 1920x1080 sensors, but records to tape 1440x1080. And what you didn't bring up is that the EX1 records the same 1440x1080 to its SxS cards because, like HDV, the XDCam codec is rectangular pixels, so 1440x1080 only at available higher bit rates. The EX1 and V1U, for that matter, are capable of recording the full 1920x1080 through HD-SDI for EX-1 and HDMI for V1U. The feature I believe that really sets the EX-1 apart from the rest is the larger 1/2 inch sensors.

The EX1 does record a full 1920x1080 to SxS cards in HQ mode at 35Mbps. In SP mode it records 1440x1080 at 25Mbps (like HDV).

Paul Kellett · February 27th, 2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

The EX1 does record a full 1920x1080 to SxS cards in HQ mode at 35Mbps. In SP mode it records 1440x1080 at 25Mbps (like HDV).

Correct ...

John Bosco Jr. · February 27th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

The EX1 does record a full 1920x1080 to SxS cards in HQ mode at 35Mbps. In SP mode it records 1440x1080 at 25Mbps (like HDV).

I stand corrected; the EX 1 does what its more expensive brothers doesn't, record full HD. I don't know how much of a difference that really makes, but it's nice to hear.

Dennis Schmitz · February 28th, 2008, 05:42 AM

The Sony PMW-EX1 CMOS sensors have the double size and double resolution of the V1Us'!

http://www.camcorder-test.com/camcor...7223d8006.html
(german)

regards Dennis

February 26th, 2008, 02:56 PM	#1
Ron Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 103	3 chip, HD (not tape), good low light Are there any clear winners in the 3-chip HD (1080x1920 actual pixels on the CCDs), low light category? My primary application will be for recording lectures, plays, events, concerts. Most of these happen indoors with poor lighting control - hence the interest in good low-light performance. Strong preference for non-tape recording - so tired of tape... Oh yes - cost < $6000. Many thanks, Ron Johnson PDX, OR __________________ Ron Johnson Portland, OR

February 26th, 2008, 05:18 PM	#3
Ron Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 103	Shawn - You are right on the external HDD storage option - keeps slipping my mind as I want to minimize the # of components that need to get brought along, powered up and protected from loss/damage. But it does offer a lot of flexibility. (also, if something happens to the HDD, or the medium its contents were transferred to, then the original is still on tape - still a reasonably affordable mass storage medium) So, if 'tapeless' is not a requirement, are there other good nominees? thanks again __________________ Ron Johnson Portland, OR

February 26th, 2008, 04:56 PM	#2
Shawn McCalip Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 315	As far as I know, your only option would be Sony's EX-1 camera. It's right at the ceiling of your budget, but it's the only 3-chip camera I know with 1920X1080 sensors. There really aren't all that many 1920X1080 sensors floating around out there. Most sensors are 1440X1080 or smaller. Your desire for tapeless acquisition also really limits your options. You're stuck with the EX 1 by Sony, or with the HVX-200 by Panasonic. Instead of looking for a 100% tapeless camera, why not look for a tape-based camera that suits you, and then purchase something like a Firestore or equivalent external hard drive. You'd be able to have the benefit of recording your tape archive while at the same time recording to a hard drive for instant editing capabilities. I'm currently editing a project that was shot with an HVX200, and I'm very unimpressed with it's low-light performance, not to mention the color. I'm sure some of this could be due to the actions of the camera operator, but it seems like it's not that far beyond current SD cameras My two cents...

February 26th, 2008, 11:37 PM	#4
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	The EX1 is the clear choice based on your stated requirements, with nothing else comparable for the price at this time. In fact you pretty much described the niche the EX1 fills...

February 28th, 2008, 05:42 AM	#9
Dennis Schmitz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Viersen, Germany Posts: 120	The Sony PMW-EX1 CMOS sensors have the double size and double resolution of the V1Us'! http://www.camcorder-test.com/camcor...7223d8006.html (german) regards Dennis