Spec and feature listed ... what is the best fit ? at DVinfo.net

Barry Smith · December 1st, 2007, 12:31 AM

I notice that several camera take removable lenses. I have a wish list and wanted to know which camera it corresponds to.

- removable lens
- external battery packs
- SD resolution or higher
- manual controls as well as full auto
- hard disk or video out.
- Microphone in

Basically I want to shoot with my choice of lens such as Leica or Carl Zeiss from the 35mm world or perhaps even 120mm.

I dont suppose anyone made a camera system which is compatible with 1960's rangefinder lenses. Something like a scaled-down-pro system ?

Now that there have been a number of new lenses released by CZ and Leica for the M-mount digital is there such a thing as a video camera able to mount these lenses ?

Glenn Chan · December 1st, 2007, 01:13 AM

1- What's your budget?

2- In my opinion... from a technical perspective... sharper lenses aren't always necessarily helpful. On many cameras, a sharper lens will make aliasing issues worse. So it's kind of one step forwards one step backwards. You're usually better off with a camera with a high sampling rate than trying to get really sharp glass on a camera. 4K, 2K (only barely higher than HD), 1920x1080, 1440x1080 (some/most HDV is like this), 1280x720, etc.
You also need to look at both the sensor and the format's sampling rates... JVC's 720p cameras do really well against some similarly priced 1080i cameras since the 1080i cameras don't have high resolution sensors.

From a practical perspective, it's probably more useful to look at your needs first and then look at the tools that would meet your goals.

3- I don't believe there are any mounts that would give you access to the autofocus feature on say a Carl Zeiss lens. (As far as I know anyways!) Except perhaps for their video lenses like the Zeiss digiprimes. But I presume you meant lenses designed for still photography use.

The Red camera with the Birger mount will give control of Canon lenses. No auto iris.

Barry Smith · December 1st, 2007, 02:53 AM

Hi Glen,

You will note that lenses in the range of f1.2, 1.0 and 0.95 have existed for some time. They offer some creative opportunity. This includes a 90mm f1.0 and 50mm f1.0. These lenses are all soft and have very accurate focus due to the DOF.

I recently acquired a Nikkor 20 f3.5 which is one of the best examples of a highly corrected wide angle lens and one which most retailers are certain was never made in AIS mount.

I am not adverse to shooting in moonlight with black and white mode. There are times when such shooting is highly feasible if the conditions are right. The purpose of the Leica and CZ glass is to look also at shooting into the sunset / at the moon / neon lamps without flare.

Or perhaps looking at perspective control lenses (Schneider comes in varied mounts) to achieve a building shot which is otherwise not actually possible.

Then I am also looking at lens tilt and Canon MP-E 6X macro or using lenses backwards.

All I want to do is mount such a configuration on a camera which is able to accept such a lens. The budget is limited but no so limited that the results are self-defeating. At some point there must be a bump in the cost versus performance curve which would entice an amateur.

I tend to shoot a lot of footage where nothing moves. I use it as a form of live photography.

Also, it is possible to use DSLR as a movie camera at 21mpx and 11fps.

http://www.floaded.com/films/erlkoenigin

www.mercedes-benz.tv click on LIFESTYLE then look at Roman Kuhn or the "making of erlkoenigin"

Roman Kuhn is an interesting film director.

Glenn Chan · December 1st, 2007, 03:02 AM

Ah ok. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable in this area could chime in here..!

Barry Smith · December 1st, 2007, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Chan

Ah ok. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable in this area could chime in here..!

The Red camera body seems great but it probably represents the top class choice in flexible system the same as a Hasselblad.

Perhaps something a little more pedestrian.

I wonder if there is any mad inventor reading this who feel compelled to invent a video camera which looks like a Super8 movie camera and takes the same lenses.

going back to the 1950's there is a large selection of interesting glass. I have a pair of Schneider f1.0 CCTV lenses which I think would make an interesting experiment.

Josh Laronge · December 1st, 2007, 09:13 AM

Barry,
You're all over the camera spectrum with your requests. Intended use and budget are a good place to start. As far as interchangeable lenses, the range is Canon XL or Sony EX at the low end of the price scale then the prices can co way up past the RED to the Genesis and others. As far as lens mounts, Canon has theirs, Sony has a different mount and neither of them will take a Nikon or Leica lens with out an adapter. There are many 35mm adapters available that will accept Nikon mount lenses. The new CZ lenses announced are all available in Nikon mount. Also, the Nikon 20mm F3.5 was made in in an AIS mount, I used to own one. With the adapters, you can look at cameras that don't have interchangeable lenses such as the HVX or A1 as your interchangeability comes from the adapter.

"Also, it is possible to use DSLR as a movie camera at 21mpx and 11fps. " -- Yes, but it depends on the look you're looking for. The move Tim Burton's Corpse Bride was shot with a Canon 1ds with Nikon lenses with converted mounts and there is a Sprint commercial in the US that was shot with a Canon 1ds Mark II.

"All I want to do is mount such a configuration on a camera which is able to accept such a lens. The budget is limited but no so limited that the results are self-defeating. At some point there must be a bump in the cost versus performance curve which would entice an amateur." -- 10K US, Canon XHA1 (3K), Letus Extreme (1200) and the other 5800 for accessories and lenses.

Read this forum there is so much information on all you've asked.

Barry Smith · December 2nd, 2007, 05:41 AM

Hi Josh,

Thanks for compiling such an informative comment. I am suffering from information shock as a new member and I face a steep learning curve to grapple with the levels people are speaking on. We have everything from Xacti to Cinema. It's hard to pitch a middle ground in all of that.

I only used Roman Kuhn as a diversion, something i liked to share and mention. It is not my style to chase the DSLR format.

I am interested in the two lower priced cameras you mentioned and I will start reading on those. Once I have a name or a brand I dont mind running off and learning about the system and thereafter try to fumble about on ebay to source one.

Regards the Nikon 20 f3.5 I did meet someone who told me it was a great little lens. I simply didnt find anyone in the so called "pro photo" arena who knew what I was talking about. You would expect more from a retailer, at least the ability to google the topic before talking nonsense. I won such a lens and another one sold for 250USD or so recently. They fetch far more than closely related variants.

Thanks for all of the input. I will hunt for more information and see where I takes me.

Boyd Ostroff · December 2nd, 2007, 08:24 AM

Hi Barry. Most of the prosumer cameras have small CCD's. If you mount a 35mm SLR lens on camera with 1/3" sensors you get something like a 7x magnification factor, so your 20mm wide angle will be like a 140mm telephoto.

If you use an "adaptor" like the Letus which Josh mentioned, the 35mm lens projects an image on ground glass and the video camera actually photographs that image. This may do what you want, but you will need more light and it gets more complicated to set it up and use it.

December 1st, 2007, 12:31 AM	#1
Barry Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	Spec and feature listed ... what is the best fit ? I notice that several camera take removable lenses. I have a wish list and wanted to know which camera it corresponds to. - removable lens - external battery packs - SD resolution or higher - manual controls as well as full auto - hard disk or video out. - Microphone in Basically I want to shoot with my choice of lens such as Leica or Carl Zeiss from the 35mm world or perhaps even 120mm. I dont suppose anyone made a camera system which is compatible with 1960's rangefinder lenses. Something like a scaled-down-pro system ? Now that there have been a number of new lenses released by CZ and Leica for the M-mount digital is there such a thing as a video camera able to mount these lenses ?

December 1st, 2007, 01:13 AM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	1- What's your budget? 2- In my opinion... from a technical perspective... sharper lenses aren't always necessarily helpful. On many cameras, a sharper lens will make aliasing issues worse. So it's kind of one step forwards one step backwards. You're usually better off with a camera with a high sampling rate than trying to get really sharp glass on a camera. 4K, 2K (only barely higher than HD), 1920x1080, 1440x1080 (some/most HDV is like this), 1280x720, etc. You also need to look at both the sensor and the format's sampling rates... JVC's 720p cameras do really well against some similarly priced 1080i cameras since the 1080i cameras don't have high resolution sensors. From a practical perspective, it's probably more useful to look at your needs first and then look at the tools that would meet your goals. 3- I don't believe there are any mounts that would give you access to the autofocus feature on say a Carl Zeiss lens. (As far as I know anyways!) Except perhaps for their video lenses like the Zeiss digiprimes. But I presume you meant lenses designed for still photography use. The Red camera with the Birger mount will give control of Canon lenses. No auto iris.

December 1st, 2007, 02:53 AM	#3
Barry Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	Hi Glen, You will note that lenses in the range of f1.2, 1.0 and 0.95 have existed for some time. They offer some creative opportunity. This includes a 90mm f1.0 and 50mm f1.0. These lenses are all soft and have very accurate focus due to the DOF. I recently acquired a Nikkor 20 f3.5 which is one of the best examples of a highly corrected wide angle lens and one which most retailers are certain was never made in AIS mount. I am not adverse to shooting in moonlight with black and white mode. There are times when such shooting is highly feasible if the conditions are right. The purpose of the Leica and CZ glass is to look also at shooting into the sunset / at the moon / neon lamps without flare. Or perhaps looking at perspective control lenses (Schneider comes in varied mounts) to achieve a building shot which is otherwise not actually possible. Then I am also looking at lens tilt and Canon MP-E 6X macro or using lenses backwards. All I want to do is mount such a configuration on a camera which is able to accept such a lens. The budget is limited but no so limited that the results are self-defeating. At some point there must be a bump in the cost versus performance curve which would entice an amateur. I tend to shoot a lot of footage where nothing moves. I use it as a form of live photography. Also, it is possible to use DSLR as a movie camera at 21mpx and 11fps. http://www.floaded.com/films/erlkoenigin www.mercedes-benz.tv click on LIFESTYLE then look at Roman Kuhn or the "making of erlkoenigin" Roman Kuhn is an interesting film director.

December 1st, 2007, 03:02 AM	#4
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Ah ok. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable in this area could chime in here..!

December 1st, 2007, 09:13 AM	#6
Josh Laronge Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 241	Barry, You're all over the camera spectrum with your requests. Intended use and budget are a good place to start. As far as interchangeable lenses, the range is Canon XL or Sony EX at the low end of the price scale then the prices can co way up past the RED to the Genesis and others. As far as lens mounts, Canon has theirs, Sony has a different mount and neither of them will take a Nikon or Leica lens with out an adapter. There are many 35mm adapters available that will accept Nikon mount lenses. The new CZ lenses announced are all available in Nikon mount. Also, the Nikon 20mm F3.5 was made in in an AIS mount, I used to own one. With the adapters, you can look at cameras that don't have interchangeable lenses such as the HVX or A1 as your interchangeability comes from the adapter. "Also, it is possible to use DSLR as a movie camera at 21mpx and 11fps. " -- Yes, but it depends on the look you're looking for. The move Tim Burton's Corpse Bride was shot with a Canon 1ds with Nikon lenses with converted mounts and there is a Sprint commercial in the US that was shot with a Canon 1ds Mark II. "All I want to do is mount such a configuration on a camera which is able to accept such a lens. The budget is limited but no so limited that the results are self-defeating. At some point there must be a bump in the cost versus performance curve which would entice an amateur." -- 10K US, Canon XHA1 (3K), Letus Extreme (1200) and the other 5800 for accessories and lenses. Read this forum there is so much information on all you've asked.

December 2nd, 2007, 05:41 AM	#7
Barry Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 77	Hi Josh, Thanks for compiling such an informative comment. I am suffering from information shock as a new member and I face a steep learning curve to grapple with the levels people are speaking on. We have everything from Xacti to Cinema. It's hard to pitch a middle ground in all of that. I only used Roman Kuhn as a diversion, something i liked to share and mention. It is not my style to chase the DSLR format. I am interested in the two lower priced cameras you mentioned and I will start reading on those. Once I have a name or a brand I dont mind running off and learning about the system and thereafter try to fumble about on ebay to source one. Regards the Nikon 20 f3.5 I did meet someone who told me it was a great little lens. I simply didnt find anyone in the so called "pro photo" arena who knew what I was talking about. You would expect more from a retailer, at least the ability to google the topic before talking nonsense. I won such a lens and another one sold for 250USD or so recently. They fetch far more than closely related variants. Thanks for all of the input. I will hunt for more information and see where I takes me.

December 2nd, 2007, 08:24 AM	#8
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Hi Barry. Most of the prosumer cameras have small CCD's. If you mount a 35mm SLR lens on camera with 1/3" sensors you get something like a 7x magnification factor, so your 20mm wide angle will be like a 140mm telephoto. If you use an "adaptor" like the Letus which Josh mentioned, the 35mm lens projects an image on ground glass and the video camera actually photographs that image. This may do what you want, but you will need more light and it gets more complicated to set it up and use it.