Advice on camera choice

[Adam Beck]

I have been researching this site and not been able to come to a conclusion in choosing a new camera to purchase. I know the fine folks at DVinfo are more than willing to give me their $.02US. If you are from Canada your $.02 may be worth more right now. Moving on.....

Here are the things I want in the camera.

1) We are a small production company in California making corperate videos and TV commercials. We are wanting to move into short films and feature length films eventally. Hopefully by the end of 2008. (I know this makes #3 look even worse.)

2) Looking to make the move from DV to HD, preferably not HDV.

3) Budget as of now is $10,000. Unless the perfect solution is close to that amount.

Have at it! Thanks for your imput guy and gals.

[David W. Jones]

Is $10k your budget for just the camera, or for the camera and any accessories you will need with the camera. For example... Matt Box, filters, base plate with rod support, HD field monitor, batteries, follow focus, wide-angle lens, so forth and so on?

[Chris Hurd]

If your total budget for production-related hardware is $10k, then you shouldn't spend any more than $3k to $4k on the camera itself.

[Jeremy Clark]

Hi Adam,

If eventually you're going to output to film, find a camera which shoots 24p. Can you give us more information on what's important to you? Ergonomics, lense options, fast/slow motion, workflow, shooting style... these are all things to consider. Each manufacturer / models have both strengths and weaknesses, so it depends on how you plan to use it.

Thanks
Jeremy

[Bryan Wilkat]

well, i'm not Adam, but i'll continue this thread cause i have some questions.

first off, i'm a sony user, i really love the pd170 and i'd like to stick with sony, just,..well, cause! hahah
so i'm leaning towards the v1, at my local camera shop its the same price as the xha1($4499canadian) but i've read something about rolling shutter on the v1 in 24p mode.
is this something that all hdv cameras suffer from or is it just the v1?
what exactly is the difference between 24p on the v1/hvx and the 24f on the xha1?
the hvx seems to have the best low light of the three cams, somewhere around 3lux, is that a HUGE difference from the v1's 4lux? is each lux = to 1 f stop?
are there other cams in this price range that offer variable frame rates besides the hvx?
and i'm aware that these hdv files are much larger than regular dv, am i going to be alright on my current editing situation(macbook pro, 2ghz, 2gb ram, fcp 5.1), or do i need to upgrade that too?

i'm sure i have more questions, i just need to think of some. hopefully someone out there can answers these / or refer me to a previous thread i havent found yet. thanks.
-b

[John Bosco Jr.]

Originally Posted by Bryan Wilkat

well, i'm not Adam, but i'll continue this thread cause i have some questions.

first off, i'm a sony user, i really love the pd170 and i'd like to stick with sony, just,..well, cause! hahah
so i'm leaning towards the v1, at my local camera shop its the same price as the xha1($4499canadian) but i've read something about rolling shutter on the v1 in 24p mode.
is this something that all hdv cameras suffer from or is it just the v1?
what exactly is the difference between 24p on the v1/hvx and the 24f on the xha1?
the hvx seems to have the best low light of the three cams, somewhere around 3lux, is that a HUGE difference from the v1's 4lux? is each lux = to 1 f stop?
are there other cams in this price range that offer variable frame rates besides the hvx?
and i'm aware that these hdv files are much larger than regular dv, am i going to be alright on my current editing situation(macbook pro, 2ghz, 2gb ram, fcp 5.1), or do i need to upgrade that too?

i'm sure i have more questions, i just need to think of some. hopefully someone out there can answers these / or refer me to a previous thread i havent found yet. thanks.
-b

Rolling shutters are employed in most cameras using CMOS sensors, and it's not only in 24p; it's in all formats. CCD sensors do not use rolling shutters. However, since CMOS sensors are better suited for high definition, camera manufacturers are finding ways to limit the artefacts associated with a rolling shutter. A lot of people don't even notice the artefacts as long as you keep the shutter speed at a minimum for whatever you're shooting. Fast motion might be a challenge. CCDs increase noise as the resolution increases. CMOS chips don't suffer the same fate. That's why most camera manufactures have turn or soon will turn to CMOS for high definition.

The V1 and HVX use progressive chips, so the cameras acquire a true 24p image. The XHA1 uses interlace chips, so it creates a 24p image. It cannot call it 24p because it is not, so Canon calls it 24f. However, Canon does such a good job of 24f, some film producers prefer it over the other cameras' 24p. Basically, 24f is 24p. There is not enough of a difference to say otherwise.

The HVX might have the better low light rating, but like most high definition cameras, it doesn't look pretty in low light. The XHA1 and HVX get very noisy in low light. Macroblocking artefacts are expecially noticeable on the HVX in low light. The V1 is not as bad in low light as I thought. This was demonstrated to me in another thread. The V1 actually looks rather clean in low light, even though the other cameras might have about a half stop advantage. So, in my opinion, it's not too big a difference.

In the price range of the HVX, there is the new Sony XDCam EX, which has not only the variable frame rates but also has bigger sensors, a professional lens, HD-SDI out. The only likely advantage of the HVX over the EX is that it will do standard definition. The EX is high definition only, but you can always down convert.

If your macbook pro is dual core which it probably is, you should not have any problems editing HDV. However, the HVX is not HDV, it is dvcprohd (which you still should not have any problems), and the EX is XDCam. As far as the V1 is concerned, you will have to upgrade your version of FCP in order to unwrap 24p from 60i using pulldown. I believe the current version of FCP is now able to do that. Oh, hopefully you have a large raid 0 storage array for your content.

Hope this helps

[Bryan Wilkat]

John, thank you.
Thats probably the best answer to all my questions anyone's given me on this board(not that the rest of you havent been helpful!).
Ive read some stuff about the hdcam EX and to me it seems like a better cam than the HXV based on capturing technology and lens control, etc.. I think my company will probably pick up an EX as a main cam and V1 as secondary.

Do you know if FCexpress 4 has the proper pulldown removal for the V1 or does it have to be FCP 6? ...and I thought that my FCP 5 had a pulldown removal for 24p, why doesnt it work with the V1?

[John Bosco Jr.]

Originally Posted by Bryan Wilkat

John, thank you.
Thats probably the best answer to all my questions anyone's given me on this board(not that the rest of you havent been helpful!).
Ive read some stuff about the hdcam EX and to me it seems like a better cam than the HXV based on capturing technology and lens control, etc.. I think my company will probably pick up an EX as a main cam and V1 as secondary.

Do you know if FCexpress 4 has the proper pulldown removal for the V1 or does it have to be FCP 6? ...and I thought that my FCP 5 had a pulldown removal for 24p, why doesnt it work with the V1?

No... pull down won't work in express, and I don't know why pulldown doesn't work in pre FCP 6 versions. I just know that it doesn't work.

This is edited from my previous comment.

Steve Mullen wrote an article back in May about a workaround to capture 24p from the V1, which should work with your version of FCP. He also explains the difference between pulldown and V1's pulldown. Steve is also quite active in this forum. If he sees this, maybe he can respond to you directly about the workaround. Here is the link to Mullen's article:

http://digitalcontentproducer.com/hd...907/index.html