Blackmagic Intensity Pro capture 4:2:2 (1080x1920) over component?

Rolf Seitz · September 30th, 2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

I've tried to find info re: the A-D sampling depth for the Intensity Pro Card. Nowhere, on any of the BMD sites, do they say what it is. I've written to BMD tech support for the answer and the responded with a very weasly response, basically providing no info. This makes me suspect that the Intensity (Pro) card is less than 10 bit.

Sampling is 8Bit for the Intensity/Intensity Pro, read that somewhere here in a other thread.

Bill Ravens · September 30th, 2007, 04:05 PM

If, in fact, it is 8-bit, then this is the weak link in the chain. The whole object is to bring in 10-bit, isn't it? It does no good to injest 10 bit from the HD100 thru an 8 bit throttle.

Steven Thomas · September 30th, 2007, 04:08 PM

Hmmm.
I have not seen anything on it's bit depth.

It would be nice to know where this info is located?

The only info I read is from there web site about playback:
" Play out through the HDMI video output using 8 and 10 bit uncompressed AVI and QuickTime™ files, HDV, Motion JPEG and DV files, as well as 32 bit TARGA and BMP image sequences, which can all be played back on the same Premiere Pro timeline without rendering."

Even this info does not tell us if it's playing back all 10 bits from the 10 bit video file.....

Update:
Looking closer at the Intensity Pro manual online, I found this info on page 20:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/dow...yProMan-en.pdf

"When using Disk Speed Test, you need to account for disk seeking, so it’s best to add a healthy
margin to the results. If a disk array tests at 32 frames per second HD 1080, it doesn’t mean you can
do 29.97 HD capture and playback, as the margin is too tight. When checking the results, look at the
8 bit YUV 4:2:2 video sections, as Intensity Pro uses the 8 bit uncompressed video format."

Bad news, it looks like the Intensity Pro only support 8 bit.
I wonder if this partially explains the color shift? Glenn?

Daniel Browning · September 30th, 2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

I have not seen anything on it's bit depth.

The output is 8-bit, there is no question about that: the 1X bus can't handle 10-bit 4:2:2. There has been a little speculation about 10-bit sampling to 8-bit out, but no one has clarified that for sure.

Quote:

The whole object is to bring in 10-bit, isn't it?

There are many more benefits: live capture and less compression (4:2:2 YUV beats HDV any day of the week and twice on Sundays).

Glenn Chan · September 30th, 2007, 04:56 PM

The color shift looks like improper handling of 601 versus 709 luma coefficients, and some issue with analog calibration (the calibration of the analog signal coming off the camera and into the card).

Bill Ravens · September 30th, 2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Browning

There are many more benefits: live capture and less compression (4:2:2 YUV beats HDV any day of the week and twice on Sundays).

Daniel...
I'm afraid I'll take issue with this statement. While the benefits may be realizable if one is chroma keying, otherwise I challenge you to see the difference.

Daniel Browning · September 30th, 2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Daniel...
I'm afraid I'll take issue with this statement. While the benefits may be realizable if one is chroma keying, otherwise I challenge you to see the difference.

Try comparing highly saturated colors; there was a recent thread about it. Furthermore, a host of color-related filters benefit greatly from 4:2:2. I'm sure you agree that 4:2:0 must be upsampled before *any* grading is done to it, but I would take that further and say that native 4:2:2 is visibly superior.

Robert Ducon · October 1st, 2007, 03:04 AM

Daniel, I'm working on a production that I shot in ProRes 422 HQ at full raster 1080P.. and yes, it's beating all the HDV b-roll I shot. It's sharper, and cleaner when being played back and being viewed on a still frame on my computer LCDs.

HOWEVER.

I'd bet it'd be hard for me to even tell my own footage apart being played on even a high-end LCD TV.

It was worth capturing to RAID at 4:2:2 though, especially since making a claim like this will mean I'll have eventually prove it, right? ;)

Btw, I captured the digital HDMI signal at 1080P 4:2:2, rather than an analog component signal (which I'd say had less resolution than HDV). When talking about analog YUV vs. digital HDV.. tough call. The jury's out on that one - I tested analog and decided it wasn't for me and when full digital.

October 1st, 2007, 03:04 AM	#68
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	Daniel, I'm working on a production that I shot in ProRes 422 HQ at full raster 1080P.. and yes, it's beating all the HDV b-roll I shot. It's sharper, and cleaner when being played back and being viewed on a still frame on my computer LCDs. HOWEVER. I'd bet it'd be hard for me to even tell my own footage apart being played on even a high-end LCD TV. It was worth capturing to RAID at 4:2:2 though, especially since making a claim like this will mean I'll have eventually prove it, right? ;) Btw, I captured the digital HDMI signal at 1080P 4:2:2, rather than an analog component signal (which I'd say had less resolution than HDV). When talking about analog YUV vs. digital HDV.. tough call. The jury's out on that one - I tested analog and decided it wasn't for me and when full digital. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

September 30th, 2007, 04:05 PM	#62
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	If, in fact, it is 8-bit, then this is the weak link in the chain. The whole object is to bring in 10-bit, isn't it? It does no good to injest 10 bit from the HD100 thru an 8 bit throttle.

September 30th, 2007, 04:08 PM	#63
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Hmmm. I have not seen anything on it's bit depth. It would be nice to know where this info is located? The only info I read is from there web site about playback: " Play out through the HDMI video output using 8 and 10 bit uncompressed AVI and QuickTime™ files, HDV, Motion JPEG and DV files, as well as 32 bit TARGA and BMP image sequences, which can all be played back on the same Premiere Pro timeline without rendering." Even this info does not tell us if it's playing back all 10 bits from the 10 bit video file..... Update: Looking closer at the Intensity Pro manual online, I found this info on page 20: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/dow...yProMan-en.pdf "When using Disk Speed Test, you need to account for disk seeking, so it’s best to add a healthy margin to the results. If a disk array tests at 32 frames per second HD 1080, it doesn’t mean you can do 29.97 HD capture and playback, as the margin is too tight. When checking the results, look at the 8 bit YUV 4:2:2 video sections, as Intensity Pro uses the 8 bit uncompressed video format." Bad news, it looks like the Intensity Pro only support 8 bit. I wonder if this partially explains the color shift? Glenn?

September 30th, 2007, 04:56 PM	#65
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	The color shift looks like improper handling of 601 versus 709 luma coefficients, and some issue with analog calibration (the calibration of the analog signal coming off the camera and into the card).