Best Camera under $10,000 for Large Screen Projection

[Seung Han]

Ok, back to topic...

What say you about this camera for a feature film production for big screen projection?

$6999 Sony XDCAM EX with 2x 8 gig SxS card

http://www.sportsvideo.org/portal/ar...cle_7288.shtml

http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/Show...18707 9500753

http://www.ingenioustv.com/xdcamex.asp

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=171

Looks like a nice camera. So this will shoot 24 at 1080p on 3 x native HD 1/2" 1920x1080 CMOS sensors? Am I reading this right? This is real 24 progressive?

Also, do any of you know lens/adaptor options for a 1/2" sensor? Can I use Redrock, Brevis or some other adaptor to use Nikon lenses for DOF?

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Seung Han

What say you about this camera for a feature film production for big screen projection?...$6999 Sony XDCAM EX with 2x 8 gig SxS card

If the Sony EX1 lives up to its specifications it should be a decent camera for making a big-screen production, especially compared to other cameras in this price range. You're correcting in reading that it will record 1920x1080 video from a 1920x1080 sensor, which should work well for doing big-screen work. The main thing to understand before buying one is that it only records HD and only on the specialized memory cards, so you'll need to be prepared to deal with archiving the footage from the cards and editing all of your projects in HD. If you can wait for this camera to ship I'd say it would be well worth considering.

[Sergio Perez]

Originally Posted by Seung Han

Ok, back to topic...

What say you about this camera for a feature film production for big screen projection?

$6999 Sony XDCAM EX with 2x 8 gig SxS card

http://www.sportsvideo.org/portal/ar...cle_7288.shtml

http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/Show...18707 9500753

http://www.ingenioustv.com/xdcamex.asp

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=171

Looks like a nice camera. So this will shoot 24 at 1080p on 3 x native HD 1/2" 1920x1080 CMOS sensors? Am I reading this right? This is real 24 progressive?

Also, do any of you know lens/adaptor options for a 1/2" sensor? Can I use Redrock, Brevis or some other adaptor to use Nikon lenses for DOF?

Seung Han, the interesting thing in this industry is that things are evolving in a pace that whats cutting edge one week might not be the next.

The Sony EX you quote looks very good on paper, but whats more interesting in it is this- 1/2 cmos chips with full 1920x1080 resolution. The recordim XDCAM format is good, but 4:2:0. I wouldn't think about this camera since I own an HVX, but after the announcement of this device

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=102312

which records the UNCOMPRESSED HD-SDI signal to 160mbps 4:2:2 Intraframe Mpeg2 to CF cards (!!), makes the EX, with its full resolution 1920x1080 chips, a package that's very, very hard to resist. With a 35mm adapter, on paper, this should be a very, very interesting option for film out... Whole package should be about 13 000 USD. (with recorder and 35mm adapter)

The CF Recorder can be used in any HD-SDI camera- so it should boost performance on XL-H1, HPX500, etc.

Really exciting times!

[Seung Han]

How much of a difference do you guys think the Ex (1/2") and the F 23 (2/3") will show projected on a cinema sized screen? Is the resolution the only concern here?

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Seung Han

How much of a difference do you guys think the Ex (1/2") and the F 23 (2/3") will show projected on a cinema sized screen? Is the resolution the only concern here?

I would think depth of field would also be a consideration, but if you'd rather buy a camera as opposed to renting one the EX1 is looking good for the price.

[Kris Bird]

Seung Han-

glass (resolving ability, chromatic aberations, range, distortions), codec (or none, ie uncompressed), bitrate, colour sampling, sensitivity due to photosite size and cmos vs ccd, dof related to sensor size, wobble-effect due to cmos vs ccd, etc., dynamic range (a factor of photosite size, ccd/cmos, and complex engineering which favours big expensive power-hungry chips), etc...

physical size of a larger cam can slow you down enough to add days and $ks onto your schedule of course.

and taking the $$ to be spent on a F23 and spending it on a great DOP and/or eye-popping art design can easily add more to your perceived production values, IMHO

[John Bosco Jr.]

Originally Posted by Seung Han

How much of a difference do you guys think the Ex (1/2") and the F 23 (2/3") will show projected on a cinema sized screen? Is the resolution the only concern here?

With the package that Sergio discribes, It's possible that it won't be that big a difference. With CMOS, you likely won't lose anymore latitude, but it remains to see if the rolling shutter will produce some wobble or other minor problems associated with a rolling shutter. The cheaper glass on the lens will make a difference in achieving a film-like DOF, but 35mm adapters should remedy that.

I do wish Sony went with a global shutter with this cam, but it is what it is. Anyway, getting back to your feature. I think if you can hold off shooting until this camera ships; then I believe this is the right choice. That is with the package that Sergio presented in an earlier reply with the CF recorder. The nice thing is that this won't be a wasted investment as you can use this as a "B" camera once you get your "Red One."

Oh, expect to have on hand a lot of CF cards... at the recording rate that Sergio mentioned, a 16 gig card will hold approximately 12 minutes of footage. If you don't mind changing out CF cards often, then this is the choice for you.

Recording in the XDCam codec wouldn't be all that bad. It won't look as nice as the F23, but the images, I believe, would be acceptable for the big screen.

Here I go drifting off again. The bottom line is that the EX1 will produce images, I believe, close to the F23 if you record the HD-SDI output, and the package that Sergio presented is the best recording solution I've heard of to date. All this is probably a better option than renting but only if you can hold off shooting until probably mid January or February.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Originally Posted by John Bosco Jr.

Oh, expect to have on hand a lot of CF cards... at the recording rate that Sergio mentioned, a 16 gig card will hold approximately 12 minutes of footage. If you don't mind changing out CF cards often, then this is the choice for you.

Are we reading the same articles on the EX1?

On the one by Nigel Cooper, he says that "...You can record 50 minutes of full HQ HD footage onto a single 16GB card".

Isn't that so? Where is it claimed 12 minutes footage for a 16G card?

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Carlos E. Martinez

On the one by Nigel Cooper, he says that "...You can record 50 minutes of full HQ HD footage onto a single 16GB card". Isn't that so? Where is it claimed 12 minutes footage for a 16G card?

That's a reference to using a separate CompactFlash based recording device to capture the footage at a higher data rate, as mentioned in an earlier post. The figure of 50 minutes on a 16GB card is the normal HQ recording mode.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

That's a reference to using a separate CompactFlash based recording device to capture the footage at a higher data rate, as mentioned in an earlier post. The figure of 50 minutes on a 16GB card is the normal HQ recording mode.

Sorry. You lost me here. What's the difference between cards and recording devices?

[Seung Han]

Great info here guys, thanks a lot! I'm gonna keep asking as long as you keep answering...knock on wood...

If the EX has 1/2' sensors and F 23 has 2/3' sensors but both shoot 1080p then what quality differences will the size differences in the sensors exhibit?

Also, does anybody know how much of a difference there will be in DOF between these two sensors? Or the difference in DOF between 1/3', 1/2' and 2/3'? Is there a way to measure the differences and if so can you compare them to the DOF of a 35mm?

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Carlos E. Martinez

Sorry. You lost me here. What's the difference between cards and recording devices?

The CompactFlash-based device mentioned earlier offers a higher-bandwidth format than what the EX1 normally records, hence the lower amount of recording time per GB. Sony's estimate of 50 minutes on a 16 GB card is the figure you should keep in mind for normal use.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

The CompactFlash-based device mentioned earlier offers a higher-bandwidth format than what the EX1 normally records, hence the lower amount of recording time per GB. Sony's estimate of 50 minutes on a 16 GB card is the figure you should keep in mind for normal use.

Oh, I see now! You mean taking the HD-SDI output and recording it on an external CF device.

Such devices should become interesting when CF cards really take a dip in price, like 100GB for $100 or so. More or less how HDDs are now.

Probably dreaming, but until then I will keep away from such CF devices.

What I'm interested is the "normal use" Sony is implementing.

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Carlos E. Martinez

Such devices should become interesting when CF cards really take a dip in price, like 100GB for $100 or so. More or less how HDDs are now.

The funny thing is that good CF cards already offer more than enough performance for HD recording at a fraction of the cost of P2 or SxS memory, and nearly competitive per GB with HDD recorders like the Firestore. If the EX1 used CF cards you could buy over four hours worth of recording capacity for about $1000, instead of $4500...

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

The funny thing is that good CF cards already offer more than enough performance for HD recording at a fraction of the cost of P2 or SxS memory...

Not really. See where I debunk this claim, at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....7&postcount=41

If the EX1 used CF cards you could buy over four hours worth of recording capacity for about $1000, instead of $4500...

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you need the high speed SanDisk Extreme IV 300x Compact Flash cards (like the RED One camera, reference in my post linked above; forget about the less expensive Extreme III cards because they're not fast enough).

An 8GB SanDisk Extreme IV card costs about $200 and would yield 25 minutes of recording time if the EX1 could actually write to a CF card. You'd need ten of these cards at $200 each, or $2,000 (not $1,000), in order to to get four hours of recording time.

But this is pointless, because the EX1 writes to Express Card memory, not Compact Flash. Let's get past the shoulda/coulda/woulda's and try to focus on reality please -- thanks in advance,