FireStore reliability? at DVinfo.net

Isabel Rocamora · January 5th, 2007, 12:18 PM

Hi Sam

have you tried one out? a facilities company in central london, U.K swears by the firestore... i have held off cause i heard rumours too, would be good to have some solid reports from anyone who owns one!

by the way can't find release date on the Cineporter site - where does it say Summer 2007? and is it a confirmed date?

thanks

isabel

Sam Jankis · January 5th, 2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabel Rocamora

Hi Sam

have you tried one out? a facilities company in central london, U.K swears by the firestore... i have held off cause i heard rumours too, would be good to have some solid reports from anyone who owns one!

I was on a shoot last night with two HVXs... one used P2, one used a Firestore. The Firestore screwed up a few times, actually.

The FW cable got snagged once... CUT. The battery ran out w/o warning... CUT. And we had a couple of late record starts... ACTION... wait... okay, ACTION.

It's not a terrible device, just finicky. Yes, it does long-form, but I rarely do that... and when I do, it's typically SD. If I had to do an HD doc today, I'd borrow an HDV camera. This is why I don't own a Firestore.

Isabel Rocamora · January 6th, 2007, 11:12 AM

wow! that does sound like a bit of a pain!!

well, i wouldn't choose to use the Z1 just cause of its limited lens (ie: full on depth of field whatver you do with it!)... do you know of any other alternatives to the Firestore/ P2 right now? and do you know whether Panasonic may have upgraded the Firestore since it first came out? (wishful thinking here!)

thanks for your advice

isabel

Bill Ravens · January 6th, 2007, 08:44 PM

IMHO, tape has unpredictable dropouts.....any media has its aspects of unreliability. I use firestore fs4hd without tape backup. it's become that reliable. it does take some getting used to it, to understand where its weaknesses are. but, once you work thru them, i'll take it over tape, any day.

Isabel Rocamora · January 7th, 2007, 01:50 PM

thanks for the tip, do you know if it's compatible for DVCPro HD use (Panasonic HVX 200)? looks like it's been designed for DV and HDV only...
isabel

Mark Francombe · January 8th, 2007, 09:38 AM

quick moan... We are in the process of trying to swap our Firestore for P2 cards... just cant rely on it.. we have had a few shoots now where we have resorted to using the tape backup taken at the same time...

We believe its the cable, doesnt matter HOW relieble the box is, if the cable wobbles (which it WILL unless you are only studio based) then we lose that clip...

Havent even dared to try HD yet... so... anyone got a couple of P2's they wanna swap if the shop won't take ours back???

Isabel Rocamora · January 9th, 2007, 12:18 PM

have you tried using a more flexible cable? friend mentioned it might be a good option - like the one off your ipod (if you have one!) - if you try it please let me know if it works! as i am considering getting a Firestore imminently!

thanks!

isabel

Bill Ravens · January 9th, 2007, 12:53 PM

firewire cables are really the undoing of firewire devices. the best firewire cables I've been able to find are at www.unibrain.com
I should also mention that a lot of manufacturers are now warning to NOT hotswap 6-pin firewire devices because the 6-pin version carries external power. apparently if the power is on, several users have reported burning out their electronics by inadvertent shorts of the power pin to the signal pins. So, a word of caution...always turn the power off on your devices before plugging/unplugging a firewire cable.

John Richard · January 11th, 2007, 10:08 AM

Canon even recommends against swapping out the 4pin - unpowered firewire cables on thier camcorders.

Matt McEwen · January 12th, 2007, 06:51 PM

There is a new 4-pin right angle FireWire cable that is available for FS-100/HVX200. It solves a lot of issues as it is more secure on the 4-pin side and also does not stick out from the camera as much which was causing many of the issues.

We also recommend that you check you are running the latest firmware (2.0.3).

Matt

Gunleik Groven · January 21st, 2007, 10:22 AM

My experience so far is that the FS can be reliable as long as you don't expect it to be -;)

Doublecheck everything all the time, and you're fine.

I'd love the version 3 firmware to have an alarm go off if the datastream is cut-off during recording when you haven't hit the rec button on your camera -;) Then I would maybe dare to use the bebox I got with it. -;)
For now I just don't dare NOT being able to see the screen at all times.

Gunleik

Larry Kamerman · January 21st, 2007, 01:03 PM

Matt, where can we find the right angle cable?

Matt McEwen · January 24th, 2007, 03:38 PM

The right angle cable is a 4-pin right angle to 6-pin (4ft.) and will be available for order from the Focus webstore shortly. Order part number CBLA-0151-01.

Matt

Kit Hannah · January 29th, 2007, 12:36 AM

Matt,
Doesn't Focus Enhancements already offer a firewire cable with an angle? If I recall correctly, one came with our DR-5000's (FS-3), but it was very short. We since have sold those off and upgraded to FS-4 HD's because of our cameras.

As to the reliability of the FS-4's, we used 3 of them ysterday for an All day cheer competition that we were doing. 2 cameras / firestores were on sticks and the other I was using as a hand held. Worked out perfectly. Ran all day without stopping or anything. No drop outs, no problems. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Recorded to .m2t files in HDV 30p. The only problems we are having is gaps between clips (a couple of frames) when put toether, although from my understanding this is a Vegas issue. We have 2 that have 100Gb hard drives in (Hitachi, same as OEM) and one with a Segate 120Gb, 8Mb Buffer drive in it.

The 100Gb = 670 minutes in .m2t mode

The 120GB = 804 Minutes im .m2t mode

Both work flawlessly - and it was an easy, 5 minute upgrade since we're computer guys.

For the hand held, we run a battery belt that powers the Firestore all day and night.

Kit Hannah · January 29th, 2007, 10:47 PM

So, I am recanting some of my statement I made yesterday.... Although our firestores worked fine, there are gaps between files which is going to make it very time consuming to edit. Not happy. I have tried some other apps, such as Womble and Premiere Pro, same thing...glitches. I am beginning to think this is a Focus Enhancements Firestore problem, not a Vegas problem. Looking at their compatibility chart, the only thing it says is that the timecode does not work properly, but other than that, it is compatible.

Well, it's not. .m2t files have gaps, and until someone can point me in the right direction of what to do, I am recommending against the FS-4 units for HDV. At this point, I will be more than happy to change NLEs if it means that I don't have to go line all this stuff up. This is getting very old.

January 5th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#1
Isabel Rocamora New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 14	firestore reliability Hi Sam have you tried one out? a facilities company in central london, U.K swears by the firestore... i have held off cause i heard rumours too, would be good to have some solid reports from anyone who owns one! by the way can't find release date on the Cineporter site - where does it say Summer 2007? and is it a confirmed date? thanks isabel

January 6th, 2007, 11:12 AM	#3
Isabel Rocamora New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 14	firestore reliability wow! that does sound like a bit of a pain!! well, i wouldn't choose to use the Z1 just cause of its limited lens (ie: full on depth of field whatver you do with it!)... do you know of any other alternatives to the Firestore/ P2 right now? and do you know whether Panasonic may have upgraded the Firestore since it first came out? (wishful thinking here!) thanks for your advice isabel

January 7th, 2007, 01:50 PM	#5
Isabel Rocamora New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 14	firestore hd thanks for the tip, do you know if it's compatible for DVCPro HD use (Panasonic HVX 200)? looks like it's been designed for DV and HDV only... isabel

January 8th, 2007, 09:38 AM	#6
Mark Francombe Tourist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Oslo Norway Posts: 3	fed up with it... quick moan... We are in the process of trying to swap our Firestore for P2 cards... just cant rely on it.. we have had a few shoots now where we have resorted to using the tape backup taken at the same time... We believe its the cable, doesnt matter HOW relieble the box is, if the cable wobbles (which it WILL unless you are only studio based) then we lose that clip... Havent even dared to try HD yet... so... anyone got a couple of P2's they wanna swap if the shop won't take ours back???

January 9th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#7
Isabel Rocamora New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 14	cable have you tried using a more flexible cable? friend mentioned it might be a good option - like the one off your ipod (if you have one!) - if you try it please let me know if it works! as i am considering getting a Firestore imminently! thanks! isabel

January 6th, 2007, 08:44 PM	#4
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	IMHO, tape has unpredictable dropouts.....any media has its aspects of unreliability. I use firestore fs4hd without tape backup. it's become that reliable. it does take some getting used to it, to understand where its weaknesses are. but, once you work thru them, i'll take it over tape, any day.

January 9th, 2007, 12:53 PM	#8
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	firewire cables are really the undoing of firewire devices. the best firewire cables I've been able to find are at www.unibrain.com I should also mention that a lot of manufacturers are now warning to NOT hotswap 6-pin firewire devices because the 6-pin version carries external power. apparently if the power is on, several users have reported burning out their electronics by inadvertent shorts of the power pin to the signal pins. So, a word of caution...always turn the power off on your devices before plugging/unplugging a firewire cable.

January 11th, 2007, 10:08 AM	#9
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	Canon even recommends against swapping out the 4pin - unpowered firewire cables on thier camcorders.

January 12th, 2007, 06:51 PM	#10
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	There is a new 4-pin right angle FireWire cable that is available for FS-100/HVX200. It solves a lot of issues as it is more secure on the 4-pin side and also does not stick out from the camera as much which was causing many of the issues. We also recommend that you check you are running the latest firmware (2.0.3). Matt

January 21st, 2007, 10:22 AM	#11
Gunleik Groven Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Espa - Norway Posts: 151	My experience so far is that the FS can be reliable as long as you don't expect it to be -;) Doublecheck everything all the time, and you're fine. I'd love the version 3 firmware to have an alarm go off if the datastream is cut-off during recording when you haven't hit the rec button on your camera -;) Then I would maybe dare to use the bebox I got with it. -;) For now I just don't dare NOT being able to see the screen at all times. Gunleik __________________ Red? Sure!

January 21st, 2007, 01:03 PM	#12
Larry Kamerman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York,NY Posts: 100	Matt, where can we find the right angle cable? __________________ www.gencofilms.com

January 24th, 2007, 03:38 PM	#13
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	The right angle cable is a 4-pin right angle to 6-pin (4ft.) and will be available for order from the Focus webstore shortly. Order part number CBLA-0151-01. Matt

January 29th, 2007, 12:36 AM	#14
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	Matt, Doesn't Focus Enhancements already offer a firewire cable with an angle? If I recall correctly, one came with our DR-5000's (FS-3), but it was very short. We since have sold those off and upgraded to FS-4 HD's because of our cameras. As to the reliability of the FS-4's, we used 3 of them ysterday for an All day cheer competition that we were doing. 2 cameras / firestores were on sticks and the other I was using as a hand held. Worked out perfectly. Ran all day without stopping or anything. No drop outs, no problems. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Recorded to .m2t files in HDV 30p. The only problems we are having is gaps between clips (a couple of frames) when put toether, although from my understanding this is a Vegas issue. We have 2 that have 100Gb hard drives in (Hitachi, same as OEM) and one with a Segate 120Gb, 8Mb Buffer drive in it. The 100Gb = 670 minutes in .m2t mode The 120GB = 804 Minutes im .m2t mode Both work flawlessly - and it was an easy, 5 minute upgrade since we're computer guys. For the hand held, we run a battery belt that powers the Firestore all day and night.

January 29th, 2007, 10:47 PM	#15
Kit Hannah Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fresno, California Posts: 528	So, I am recanting some of my statement I made yesterday.... Although our firestores worked fine, there are gaps between files which is going to make it very time consuming to edit. Not happy. I have tried some other apps, such as Womble and Premiere Pro, same thing...glitches. I am beginning to think this is a Focus Enhancements Firestore problem, not a Vegas problem. Looking at their compatibility chart, the only thing it says is that the timecode does not work properly, but other than that, it is compatible. Well, it's not. .m2t files have gaps, and until someone can point me in the right direction of what to do, I am recommending against the FS-4 units for HDV. At this point, I will be more than happy to change NLEs if it means that I don't have to go line all this stuff up. This is getting very old.