FS4 / FS4 Pro HD various topics

Dan Euritt · September 27th, 2005, 12:43 PM

do not go with the quickstream... your problems should be simple to solve.

you should have probably recorded in the raw dv(.dv) format, because that is what quicktime is supposed to be compatible with... of course the fs-4 won't run without a battery, just plug it at the "computer i/o" port, and it will look just like another hard drive on your mac... copy all of the files over to your local hard drive for editing, it sounds like there were some issues with your firewire bus connection that could have contributed to the dropped frames(?)

Robin Remde · September 28th, 2005, 11:11 AM

I understand that the Firestore is not quite ready for HDV acquisition (and as I haven't purchased the camera yet, neither am I), but we are currently using a PD-170, and going tapeless would be a real timesaver for me. We plan on making the leap to the JVC around the first of the year. My question is - will the update to the FS-4 be a downloaded firmware update, or should I wait until the HDV capable unit is ready?

Daniel Kohl · September 28th, 2005, 01:26 PM

The upgrade is supposed to be a software update. But it is way overdue, so it may be vaporware.

Jeff Milligan · October 1st, 2005, 09:41 PM

I have been trying to get my FS-4 to record in manual mode from the firewire connect to a XL2 with a tape backup. What setup and settings are necessary before you press the record button twice. With everything I try, the counter doesn't move from all zeros. Thanks for any help. It works fine from sync with camera.

Daniel Kohl · October 3rd, 2005, 05:14 AM

Jeff,

Make sure that the Firewire cable is in the DV I/O jack and not the Computer I/O.

And you are pushing the Record key on the FS-4 (not the camera) twice to start recording in LOCAL (manual) mode right?

Jeff Milligan · October 4th, 2005, 02:27 PM

I finally figured out how to get my FS-4 to work correctly in both sync and manual modes. It really is a simple device and I think I was making it too complicated by not using the sync soft key to change from local control to sync control. I was trying to change all of the settings by going through the menus.

My question now is -- is there a way to keep the FS-4 running in manual mode while you change tapes in the XL2 for continuous coverage of an event like a wedding or musical event? When you stop an XL2 to change tapes while the FS-4 in manual mode, the FS-4 will also stop just like in sync mode.

Michael Salzlechner · October 6th, 2005, 05:10 AM

i am thinking of getting an FS4 to capture video. This will be mostly for now from an XL2 camera

How does the FS4 handle the four audio channels on the XL2 ? Do i need to do something special to get the four channels or will they just be there

Who is in charge of timecode ? Does the FS4 use the cameras timecode or generate its own ? If it generates its own does it have free run time code as the XL2 ?

Can the FS4 be controlled via firewire just like a camera or tape deck ? reason for asking this is that i would like to be able to simply dub directly from the FS4 to DVD using my decks. My DVD recorder deck has automated dubbing via firewire from any firewire deck and it will control the other deck via firewire commands.

Dan Euritt · October 6th, 2005, 01:24 PM

SEARCH mode is your friend, the 4-channel audio situation has been covered in detail out here.

the fs-4 is controllable by video cameras that are capable of dv device control, but i don't know about dvd burners... so far i have been unable to get a video signal from the fs-4 into my sony gv-d900 minidv deck via the firewire port :-/ the fs-4 will play all of it's clips back as one unbroken stream, so it would nice to use as a source deck for dubbing directly onto tape... or dvd, in your case.

Michael Salzlechner · October 6th, 2005, 07:41 PM

Dan

yes i did do some reading but havent seen any final answer on the audio subject. A lot of testing (actually i did download that test video off of your site as well) but i guess no real news from focus or did they give any definitive answer ?

i did find about the timecode. Looks like the XL2 timecode can only be used if there is tape in the camera (is this correct ?) and the timecode from the FS4 can only do free run if you get the PRO version.

can you dub from the FS4 to a tape in the camera ? if a camera can control the FS4 then my DVD deck should be able to as well as that is all it does. It works well with other cameras as well as with my MiniDV deck so i would dare to guess it would work with the FS4 too.

sometimes i just need to burn DVD's directly without any post so this would be much nicer. Use the same setup for going to VHS and if i dont have to go via PC it is simply a waste of time.

thanks for the info

Dan Euritt · October 8th, 2005, 12:45 AM

the fix to get 4-channel audio into a pc to edit with seems pretty clear to me, although i haven't tested it extensively... you'll need to shoot in raw dv mode, then use software to extract the second pair of audio tracks, and also change the file format while copying.

have you checked out the focus software that we were talking about? it has an option that claims to add premiere timecode when the clip is copied(?)... i have not messed with the timecode yet, but what i've read out here so far agrees with what you said.

focus has not weighed in wrt their file conversion software... afaik, it will not pull the second pair of audio tracks out of anything other than a raw dv file.

if you were wanting to dub 4-channel audio files from the fs-4 directly to a dvd burner via the firewire port, i'm not sure how that would work... fwiw, the fs-4 plays all 4 channels back into an xl1s that's set in vcr mode... but remember that it's a video camera with external dv device control, selectable via the menu of the camera, i have not tried to do that with the dv device control disabled.

Daniel Kohl · October 8th, 2005, 02:28 AM

If you use the FS-4 in LOCAL (manual) MODE, it acts like an independent DV recorder. That means it will not be effected by tape changes on the camera - the FS-4 should keep recording as long as the camera is on. Just be careful not to shake the camera while making the tape change.

Michael Salzlechner · October 8th, 2005, 06:48 AM

Dan

i am hoping for focus to do something better than this. It is supposed to be DTE so it would be nice if you wouldnt need to spend time capturing which is one of the reasons to have the firestore in the first place

as far as the dubbing to DVD that was a separate issue and of course in this case i will not need 4 channel audio.

Dan Euritt · October 8th, 2005, 12:31 PM

believe me, i understand where you are coming from :-/ it hasn't been easy figuring out how to make this 4-channel audio work, i think that i'm going to send focus a bill for providing tech support of their products, lol... of course i'd probably have to split the revenue with mark whittle, who started this whole thing up!

the fs-4 is fully dte capable... it's just another hard drive on your computer system.

the only hitch to that is if you wanted to use 4-channel audio, which as near as i can tell, requires you to either:
1) copy the files over to another hard drive using the focus file conversion software.
2) or dupe over to tape to re-capture to a hard drive.

wrt choice #2)... today i was able to use the fs-4 as a duplication source deck, playing back to the sony gv-d900 minidv deck via the firewire connector... i turned both units on with no firewire connection, then plugged the firewire cable into the dv i/o port of the fs-4... the sony deck saw it as dv in, so i was able to manually start and stop the videotape recording... no dv device control was used.

Craig Bellaire · November 10th, 2005, 01:47 PM

I loaded the new firmware onto one of our 2 fa4's and it will not record manualy... Not sure why... Also I reset to factory settings still will not record manually..As to record sinc... that in the past didn't work well for us... good thing for tape. Anyway I have 2 units and as of now not happy with either one... So any help would be great... thanks

Daniel Kohl · November 13th, 2005, 08:11 AM

Hi Craig,

What does the FS-4 do when you push the record key twice to record in LOCAL mode? Could it be a cable problem?

I'm assuming that you have tried everything "logical" so it is hard to give you any suggestions.

I saw the post about the firmware update so I was about to download it when I checked the firmware version on my FS-4 Pro and saw that my unit has already version 1.0.1. I haven't been having much trouble with this firmware version, so I don't think that your problem is due to the firmware version. However mine was factory installed (delivered about a month ago) so that doesn't rule out a problem with the download.

I hope that you find a solution.

September 28th, 2005, 11:11 AM	#122
Robin Remde New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Phoenix Posts: 5	FS-4 and PD-170/JVC HD-100 I understand that the Firestore is not quite ready for HDV acquisition (and as I haven't purchased the camera yet, neither am I), but we are currently using a PD-170, and going tapeless would be a real timesaver for me. We plan on making the leap to the JVC around the first of the year. My question is - will the update to the FS-4 be a downloaded firmware update, or should I wait until the HDV capable unit is ready?

September 28th, 2005, 01:26 PM	#123
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	The upgrade is supposed to be a software update. But it is way overdue, so it may be vaporware. __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

October 1st, 2005, 09:41 PM	#124
Jeff Milligan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Keizer, Oregon Posts: 26	FS-4 in Manual Mode I have been trying to get my FS-4 to record in manual mode from the firewire connect to a XL2 with a tape backup. What setup and settings are necessary before you press the record button twice. With everything I try, the counter doesn't move from all zeros. Thanks for any help. It works fine from sync with camera.

October 3rd, 2005, 05:14 AM	#125
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Jeff, Make sure that the Firewire cable is in the DV I/O jack and not the Computer I/O. And you are pushing the Record key on the FS-4 (not the camera) twice to start recording in LOCAL (manual) mode right? __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1 Last edited by Daniel Kohl; October 3rd, 2005 at 05:50 AM.

October 4th, 2005, 02:27 PM	#126
Jeff Milligan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Keizer, Oregon Posts: 26	FS-4 in Manual Mode (2) I finally figured out how to get my FS-4 to work correctly in both sync and manual modes. It really is a simple device and I think I was making it too complicated by not using the sync soft key to change from local control to sync control. I was trying to change all of the settings by going through the menus. My question now is -- is there a way to keep the FS-4 running in manual mode while you change tapes in the XL2 for continuous coverage of an event like a wedding or musical event? When you stop an XL2 to change tapes while the FS-4 in manual mode, the FS-4 will also stop just like in sync mode.

September 27th, 2005, 12:43 PM	#121
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	do not go with the quickstream... your problems should be simple to solve. you should have probably recorded in the raw dv(.dv) format, because that is what quicktime is supposed to be compatible with... of course the fs-4 won't run without a battery, just plug it at the "computer i/o" port, and it will look just like another hard drive on your mac... copy all of the files over to your local hard drive for editing, it sounds like there were some issues with your firewire bus connection that could have contributed to the dropped frames(?)

October 6th, 2005, 05:10 AM	#127
Michael Salzlechner Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Royal Palm Beach, FL, US Posts: 228	Firestore FS4 questions i am thinking of getting an FS4 to capture video. This will be mostly for now from an XL2 camera How does the FS4 handle the four audio channels on the XL2 ? Do i need to do something special to get the four channels or will they just be there Who is in charge of timecode ? Does the FS4 use the cameras timecode or generate its own ? If it generates its own does it have free run time code as the XL2 ? Can the FS4 be controlled via firewire just like a camera or tape deck ? reason for asking this is that i would like to be able to simply dub directly from the FS4 to DVD using my decks. My DVD recorder deck has automated dubbing via firewire from any firewire deck and it will control the other deck via firewire commands. __________________ Michael Salzlechner

October 6th, 2005, 01:24 PM	#128
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	SEARCH mode is your friend, the 4-channel audio situation has been covered in detail out here. the fs-4 is controllable by video cameras that are capable of dv device control, but i don't know about dvd burners... so far i have been unable to get a video signal from the fs-4 into my sony gv-d900 minidv deck via the firewire port :-/ the fs-4 will play all of it's clips back as one unbroken stream, so it would nice to use as a source deck for dubbing directly onto tape... or dvd, in your case.

October 6th, 2005, 07:41 PM	#129
Michael Salzlechner Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Royal Palm Beach, FL, US Posts: 228	Dan yes i did do some reading but havent seen any final answer on the audio subject. A lot of testing (actually i did download that test video off of your site as well) but i guess no real news from focus or did they give any definitive answer ? i did find about the timecode. Looks like the XL2 timecode can only be used if there is tape in the camera (is this correct ?) and the timecode from the FS4 can only do free run if you get the PRO version. can you dub from the FS4 to a tape in the camera ? if a camera can control the FS4 then my DVD deck should be able to as well as that is all it does. It works well with other cameras as well as with my MiniDV deck so i would dare to guess it would work with the FS4 too. sometimes i just need to burn DVD's directly without any post so this would be much nicer. Use the same setup for going to VHS and if i dont have to go via PC it is simply a waste of time. thanks for the info __________________ Michael Salzlechner

October 8th, 2005, 12:45 AM	#130
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	the fix to get 4-channel audio into a pc to edit with seems pretty clear to me, although i haven't tested it extensively... you'll need to shoot in raw dv mode, then use software to extract the second pair of audio tracks, and also change the file format while copying. have you checked out the focus software that we were talking about? it has an option that claims to add premiere timecode when the clip is copied(?)... i have not messed with the timecode yet, but what i've read out here so far agrees with what you said. focus has not weighed in wrt their file conversion software... afaik, it will not pull the second pair of audio tracks out of anything other than a raw dv file. if you were wanting to dub 4-channel audio files from the fs-4 directly to a dvd burner via the firewire port, i'm not sure how that would work... fwiw, the fs-4 plays all 4 channels back into an xl1s that's set in vcr mode... but remember that it's a video camera with external dv device control, selectable via the menu of the camera, i have not tried to do that with the dv device control disabled.

October 8th, 2005, 02:28 AM	#131
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	If you use the FS-4 in LOCAL (manual) MODE, it acts like an independent DV recorder. That means it will not be effected by tape changes on the camera - the FS-4 should keep recording as long as the camera is on. Just be careful not to shake the camera while making the tape change. __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

October 8th, 2005, 06:48 AM	#132
Michael Salzlechner Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Royal Palm Beach, FL, US Posts: 228	Dan i am hoping for focus to do something better than this. It is supposed to be DTE so it would be nice if you wouldnt need to spend time capturing which is one of the reasons to have the firestore in the first place as far as the dubbing to DVD that was a separate issue and of course in this case i will not need 4 channel audio. __________________ Michael Salzlechner

October 8th, 2005, 12:31 PM	#133
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	believe me, i understand where you are coming from :-/ it hasn't been easy figuring out how to make this 4-channel audio work, i think that i'm going to send focus a bill for providing tech support of their products, lol... of course i'd probably have to split the revenue with mark whittle, who started this whole thing up! the fs-4 is fully dte capable... it's just another hard drive on your computer system. the only hitch to that is if you wanted to use 4-channel audio, which as near as i can tell, requires you to either: 1) copy the files over to another hard drive using the focus file conversion software. 2) or dupe over to tape to re-capture to a hard drive. wrt choice #2)... today i was able to use the fs-4 as a duplication source deck, playing back to the sony gv-d900 minidv deck via the firewire connector... i turned both units on with no firewire connection, then plugged the firewire cable into the dv i/o port of the fs-4... the sony deck saw it as dv in, so i was able to manually start and stop the videotape recording... no dv device control was used.

November 10th, 2005, 01:47 PM	#134
Craig Bellaire Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422	FS 4 Pro help I loaded the new firmware onto one of our 2 fa4's and it will not record manualy... Not sure why... Also I reset to factory settings still will not record manually..As to record sinc... that in the past didn't work well for us... good thing for tape. Anyway I have 2 units and as of now not happy with either one... So any help would be great... thanks __________________ Craig Bellaire www.VerticalVideoSolutions.com

November 13th, 2005, 08:11 AM	#135
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Hi Craig, What does the FS-4 do when you push the record key twice to record in LOCAL mode? Could it be a cable problem? I'm assuming that you have tried everything "logical" so it is hard to give you any suggestions. I saw the post about the firmware update so I was about to download it when I checked the firmware version on my FS-4 Pro and saw that my unit has already version 1.0.1. I haven't been having much trouble with this firmware version, so I don't think that your problem is due to the firmware version. However mine was factory installed (delivered about a month ago) so that doesn't rule out a problem with the download. I hope that you find a solution. __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1