FS4 / FS4 Pro HD various topics

Bruce S. Yarock · August 30th, 2005, 05:34 AM

Todd,
What camera are you using?
Bruce S. Yarock

Todd Mizomi · August 31st, 2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce S. Yarock

Todd,
What camera are you using?
Bruce S. Yarock

Sony HVR-Z1 , downconverting the output to DV.
Waiting for the HDV upgrade, but don't know when I'll be able to install the upgrade, since I keep having to send the unit in for repair.

Todd

Tom Woodworth · September 2nd, 2005, 03:00 AM

If anyone has any experience at all with the new FS-4 PRO and comment on this, it would be appreciated. My FS-4 will record sometimes and other times it will give almost every indication it is recording, but it really isn't. For example, when I set up with my XL2 the camera's viewfinder will say recording, the status light on the FS-4 is in record state, the LCD on the FS-4 says recording, but the counter on the LCD doesn't move. When I hit stop on the FS-4 it goes through the same motions it would if something had actually recorded. When I hook up the FS-4 to my Mac after no counter movement (to see if anything recorded) there is nothing. I know when there has been footage recorded to the FS-4 if the counter moves on the LCD. I've made sure I have upgraded the firmware on the FS-4 and my problem seems to arise randomly. By random I mean I could turn the FS-4 on and it will work fine, then after recording something hook it up to my Mac and get the footage. Then I could hook it back up to my camera and it won't work or soemtimes it does work fine. I've also turned the device on and got set up, then shut it off, and have experienced the device not working properly. It's been very frustrating, and Focus Enhancements hasn't been that helpful.

Daniel Kohl · September 5th, 2005, 01:19 AM

Tom,

I don't think that you are alone with your problems. It appears that the FS-4, although more reliable than other D2D devices on the market at the moment, is not 100% reliable. As long as you use your FS-4 I would suggest that you look at the counter on the LCD as the absolute indication of wether the FS-4 is recording or not. If the numbers don't move, you are not recording. You might also consider returning the unit for a new one, maybe it is an issue with your specific unit (but I kind of doubt it, at this point).

Tom Woodworth · September 5th, 2005, 03:03 AM

I used my FS-4 last night to shoot a football game. All went well, although I did experience the FS-4 not working properly right away. What happens is that if I turn the FS-4 off then sometimes when I turn it back on it doesn't want to record. This is totally random so I'm not able to pinpoint what the problem is exactly. However, the fix seems to be this: I disconnect the FS-4 from my camera, go to the menu where I can select "hard drive" mode. I don't actually enable "hard drive" mode, but then I exit out and select "record" mode. This has proven to get my FS-4 working properly each time since I've started using this method. It's odd and quirky but so far it's all I got. I did record the entire game and all the clips came through just fine.

Jim Olson · September 13th, 2005, 11:44 PM

Hello,
when a "no disk detected" error occurs on a FS-4 unit, it means that the internal hard disk on the FS-4 is not detected by the firmware when the FS-4 is trying to complete a Power on Reset and boot from the software on the hard disk. This error does not have anything to do with whether a 4-pin or 6-pin firewire cable is connected to the unit. We use durable hard disks, but they still can be susceptible to shock damage during shipping or if dropped or handled in a way that causes g forces that the internal hard disk can't handle. Overall we don't have many problems with them, but the HD and the fan are the two mechanical assemblies that actually have to move correctly for the unit to work properly.

Hope this helps --

Jim at Focus

As Matt said, the FS-4 will function either with a 6-pin-to-4-pin cable installed, or a 6-pin-to-6-pin cable installed. The main requirement is that the Firewire port on the other end is also a DV IEEE1394-compatible Firewire port at 400Mbps.

Thanks,
Jim at Focus

Ray Liffen · September 23rd, 2005, 03:07 AM

Just arrived from the UK suppliers is a letter telling me that the external charger for the FS4 will ship at the end of the month. It will consist of "an empty FS4 shell with the charging circuit left inside" and cost £140 incl tax (about $237 US). Er, excuse me? It seems the designers have taken the easy way out and given us an unnecessarily large charger which will still have to have a clunky cable and power supply to load down our gear bags. AND we have to pay a high price for a box full of fresh air.

Surely it should be a wall-wart with a battery connector that can be strapped on with velcro? Small and neat (and cheaper) - that's what we need.

What a shame

Jim Olson · September 23rd, 2005, 04:28 PM

Hello,

I forwarded your comment to give feedback to Focus product management. An external charger is certainly needed. I think this was the quickest, if perhaps not the most elegantly engineered, solution that we could offer.

Thanks,

Jim at Focus

Ray Liffen · September 24th, 2005, 03:12 AM

Jim

Thanks for your comment.

Have to say, though, that my mobile phone has an Lithium Ion battery, charges from a wall-wart (included in the price) and cost me £15 brand new ($25).

OK, the phone is 4v and the FS4 is 12v but that shouldn't make a charger on its own cost ten times as much.

If Nokia can charge my phone from a wall-wart then I'm sure Focus can manage it for the FS-4.

When you talk to the Focus management can you check if this present charger is just a stop-gap? If it is I'll wait for the real thing (even a deluxe wall-wart shouldn't be more than $50).

Ray Liffen

Jeff Milligan · September 24th, 2005, 08:32 AM

I now have an FS-4 that works. What setup and procedure works best from experience for continous recording of an event with a FS-4/tape combination without stopping the recording on the FS-4 to change tapes in the XL2?

Mark Geiser · September 24th, 2005, 09:58 AM

From my experience with the PD170 you have to put the FS4 into manual mode (ie start the recording on the fs4 by pressing the record key twice(once puts it in record pause I think).

That way if you change tapes on the camera the fs4 will carry on recording, however you will need to be careful of camera noise picked up by the camera whilst you are chaging tapes. I used this method during the church service of weddings which can tend to be longer than a tapes worth.

Regards

Mark

Gregory Hoose · September 24th, 2005, 11:32 PM

Hi, a fellow videographer had me do some editing on my g5 from an FS4, my first opportunity. Final Cut hd express... It was his first try using the fs4. I was shocked he would use this drive without testing it first. I ran it through the paces, the unit wouldn't work without a battery attached and the files all had to be rendered and were in pieces; short cuts. We had to export each audio track separtely or the video would drop frames. We had to reimport the audio and if we did not follow this proceedure we dropped frames. Also save didn't work and we lost all our changes (we cleared prefs to get video to output to camera). We have accounted this (not saving correctly and audio problems) to the weird format that FS4 put the files in. I think we had a DV download format. Working with Mac systems perhaps we should have gone with Quickstream?

Jeff Milligan · September 25th, 2005, 01:02 AM

Thanks Mark for your advice. I usually record from off camera mic sources or a feed from a house sound mixer board to avoid noise around the camera (like audience noise) but your point is good about tape changing noise (like the sound the transport makes when it ejects the tape.

Regards also, JeffM

Mark Whittle · September 25th, 2005, 01:16 AM

What file type did he set the FS-4 to record?
What do you mean the files were in pieces? Each shot should be in a separate file until the FAT32 limit is reached, then a new file continues the existing shot.
I don't understand what "DV download format" is?

I fail to see how the NLE not saving can have anything to do with the FS-4 or its files. Did you copy all the files off to your A/V drives or were you trying to edit on the FS-4?

The FS-4 doesn't use weird file types, it is compatible with macs & pc's, that's why it uses FAT32 but you must set the type according to what edit system you will be using. Check that the FS-4 is set to .mov.

I'm not familiar with Macs so I'm sorry I can't be any more help than this, but if you provide a bit more specific information I'm sure some FCP experts will be able to help you.

Gregory Hoose · September 25th, 2005, 09:49 AM

I am sorry I don't have more info on this. I did not record the footage and did not set the fs4 myself. I was only the recipient of improper settings it seems. Perhaps the breaking up of the video was due to an improper setting. Whatever the error in settings was, it played havoc with our attempts to edit and save.

Thank you very much for your comments, I will relay them to my friend and see if they help!

September 2nd, 2005, 03:00 AM	#108
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	FS-4 PRO Bugs If anyone has any experience at all with the new FS-4 PRO and comment on this, it would be appreciated. My FS-4 will record sometimes and other times it will give almost every indication it is recording, but it really isn't. For example, when I set up with my XL2 the camera's viewfinder will say recording, the status light on the FS-4 is in record state, the LCD on the FS-4 says recording, but the counter on the LCD doesn't move. When I hit stop on the FS-4 it goes through the same motions it would if something had actually recorded. When I hook up the FS-4 to my Mac after no counter movement (to see if anything recorded) there is nothing. I know when there has been footage recorded to the FS-4 if the counter moves on the LCD. I've made sure I have upgraded the firmware on the FS-4 and my problem seems to arise randomly. By random I mean I could turn the FS-4 on and it will work fine, then after recording something hook it up to my Mac and get the footage. Then I could hook it back up to my camera and it won't work or soemtimes it does work fine. I've also turned the device on and got set up, then shut it off, and have experienced the device not working properly. It's been very frustrating, and Focus Enhancements hasn't been that helpful.

September 5th, 2005, 01:19 AM	#109
Daniel Kohl Contributor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 571	Tom, I don't think that you are alone with your problems. It appears that the FS-4, although more reliable than other D2D devices on the market at the moment, is not 100% reliable. As long as you use your FS-4 I would suggest that you look at the counter on the LCD as the absolute indication of wether the FS-4 is recording or not. If the numbers don't move, you are not recording. You might also consider returning the unit for a new one, maybe it is an issue with your specific unit (but I kind of doubt it, at this point). __________________ Daniel Kohl Frankenstein meets XL1

September 5th, 2005, 03:03 AM	#110
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	FS-4 PRO Bugs I used my FS-4 last night to shoot a football game. All went well, although I did experience the FS-4 not working properly right away. What happens is that if I turn the FS-4 off then sometimes when I turn it back on it doesn't want to record. This is totally random so I'm not able to pinpoint what the problem is exactly. However, the fix seems to be this: I disconnect the FS-4 from my camera, go to the menu where I can select "hard drive" mode. I don't actually enable "hard drive" mode, but then I exit out and select "record" mode. This has proven to get my FS-4 working properly each time since I've started using this method. It's odd and quirky but so far it's all I got. I did record the entire game and all the clips came through just fine.

September 13th, 2005, 11:44 PM	#111
Jim Olson Focus Enhancements Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 8	"No disk detected" error Hello, when a "no disk detected" error occurs on a FS-4 unit, it means that the internal hard disk on the FS-4 is not detected by the firmware when the FS-4 is trying to complete a Power on Reset and boot from the software on the hard disk. This error does not have anything to do with whether a 4-pin or 6-pin firewire cable is connected to the unit. We use durable hard disks, but they still can be susceptible to shock damage during shipping or if dropped or handled in a way that causes g forces that the internal hard disk can't handle. Overall we don't have many problems with them, but the HD and the fan are the two mechanical assemblies that actually have to move correctly for the unit to work properly. Hope this helps -- Jim at Focus As Matt said, the FS-4 will function either with a 6-pin-to-4-pin cable installed, or a 6-pin-to-6-pin cable installed. The main requirement is that the Firewire port on the other end is also a DV IEEE1394-compatible Firewire port at 400Mbps. Thanks, Jim at Focus

September 23rd, 2005, 03:07 AM	#112
Ray Liffen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Carshalton, Surrey, UK Posts: 34	FS4 External Charger - Huge Disappointment Just arrived from the UK suppliers is a letter telling me that the external charger for the FS4 will ship at the end of the month. It will consist of "an empty FS4 shell with the charging circuit left inside" and cost £140 incl tax (about $237 US). Er, excuse me? It seems the designers have taken the easy way out and given us an unnecessarily large charger which will still have to have a clunky cable and power supply to load down our gear bags. AND we have to pay a high price for a box full of fresh air. Surely it should be a wall-wart with a battery connector that can be strapped on with velcro? Small and neat (and cheaper) - that's what we need. What a shame

August 30th, 2005, 05:34 AM	#106
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Todd, What camera are you using? Bruce S. Yarock

September 23rd, 2005, 04:28 PM	#113
Jim Olson Focus Enhancements Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 8	Sending to Focus product management Hello, I forwarded your comment to give feedback to Focus product management. An external charger is certainly needed. I think this was the quickest, if perhaps not the most elegantly engineered, solution that we could offer. Thanks, Jim at Focus

September 24th, 2005, 03:12 AM	#114
Ray Liffen Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Carshalton, Surrey, UK Posts: 34	Jim Thanks for your comment. Have to say, though, that my mobile phone has an Lithium Ion battery, charges from a wall-wart (included in the price) and cost me £15 brand new ($25). OK, the phone is 4v and the FS4 is 12v but that shouldn't make a charger on its own cost ten times as much. If Nokia can charge my phone from a wall-wart then I'm sure Focus can manage it for the FS-4. When you talk to the Focus management can you check if this present charger is just a stop-gap? If it is I'll wait for the real thing (even a deluxe wall-wart shouldn't be more than $50). Ray Liffen

September 24th, 2005, 08:32 AM	#115
Jeff Milligan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Keizer, Oregon Posts: 26	Using FS-4 while Changing Tape I now have an FS-4 that works. What setup and procedure works best from experience for continous recording of an event with a FS-4/tape combination without stopping the recording on the FS-4 to change tapes in the XL2?

September 24th, 2005, 09:58 AM	#116
Mark Geiser Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: london Posts: 59	From my experience with the PD170 you have to put the FS4 into manual mode (ie start the recording on the fs4 by pressing the record key twice(once puts it in record pause I think). That way if you change tapes on the camera the fs4 will carry on recording, however you will need to be careful of camera noise picked up by the camera whilst you are chaging tapes. I used this method during the church service of weddings which can tend to be longer than a tapes worth. Regards Mark

September 24th, 2005, 11:32 PM	#117
Gregory Hoose Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3	FS4 and dropped frames Hi, a fellow videographer had me do some editing on my g5 from an FS4, my first opportunity. Final Cut hd express... It was his first try using the fs4. I was shocked he would use this drive without testing it first. I ran it through the paces, the unit wouldn't work without a battery attached and the files all had to be rendered and were in pieces; short cuts. We had to export each audio track separtely or the video would drop frames. We had to reimport the audio and if we did not follow this proceedure we dropped frames. Also save didn't work and we lost all our changes (we cleared prefs to get video to output to camera). We have accounted this (not saving correctly and audio problems) to the weird format that FS4 put the files in. I think we had a DV download format. Working with Mac systems perhaps we should have gone with Quickstream?

September 25th, 2005, 01:02 AM	#118
Jeff Milligan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Keizer, Oregon Posts: 26	Thanks Mark for your advice. I usually record from off camera mic sources or a feed from a house sound mixer board to avoid noise around the camera (like audience noise) but your point is good about tape changing noise (like the sound the transport makes when it ejects the tape. Regards also, JeffM

September 25th, 2005, 01:16 AM	#119
Mark Whittle Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bunbury, Western Australia Posts: 153	What file type did he set the FS-4 to record? What do you mean the files were in pieces? Each shot should be in a separate file until the FAT32 limit is reached, then a new file continues the existing shot. I don't understand what "DV download format" is? I fail to see how the NLE not saving can have anything to do with the FS-4 or its files. Did you copy all the files off to your A/V drives or were you trying to edit on the FS-4? The FS-4 doesn't use weird file types, it is compatible with macs & pc's, that's why it uses FAT32 but you must set the type according to what edit system you will be using. Check that the FS-4 is set to .mov. I'm not familiar with Macs so I'm sorry I can't be any more help than this, but if you provide a bit more specific information I'm sure some FCP experts will be able to help you. __________________ MW

September 25th, 2005, 09:49 AM	#120
Gregory Hoose Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3	FS4 thanks I am sorry I don't have more info on this. I did not record the footage and did not set the fs4 myself. I was only the recipient of improper settings it seems. Perhaps the breaking up of the video was due to an improper setting. Whatever the error in settings was, it played havoc with our attempts to edit and save. Thank you very much for your comments, I will relay them to my friend and see if they help!