FS-4 Pro HD--Any fix for HDV time code issue?? Matt? at DVinfo.net

Scott Vystrcil · August 2nd, 2006, 02:36 PM

Hey guys...I have seen this issue posted before, but never saw a fix or workaround. I have a FS-4 Pro HD. How do I get Canopus to actually use the m2t files. It plays 3-5 secs and then locks up due to TC jumps. I have chosen to ignore TC in the menu options, to no avail.

Any help would be great. I like editing full res, but hate the capture time I thought I was avoiding with a DTE device.

Matt McEwen · August 3rd, 2006, 10:50 AM

Hi Scott,

What camera are you using?

Thanks,

Matt

Scott Vystrcil · August 3rd, 2006, 01:10 PM

HVR-Z1U. Is there something that I am doing wrong with this camera?

Shawn Alyasiri · August 3rd, 2006, 02:50 PM

I've had nothing but problems with the FS4 with HDV upgrade, using the Z1 or Canon H1 - even the HD100, in conjuction with Edius. Edius works with almost anything - and trys to work with what are corrupt files from the FS4HDV. I tried them in Vegas as well - bombed.

The FS4 is great for use in SD/DV modes (use it that way every week), but the HDV files written are problematic, can cause crashes, are corrupt, etc. I was one of the first to buy the upgrade...

I also like running things in local mode for some shoots, and the record button triggers problems on the FS4HDV, where it should be free-flowing. You can see the scrolling timecode on the LCD jump when you push the record button (ad hoc recording on tape, with a hopes of a master capture of everything on the firestore), and the files suffer (not/never the case in SD/DV).

This is coming from a guy about to chunk into an FS100 any hour now... Fingers crossed.

I'd love to find a final set of camera/firestore settings to use, and/or necessary firmware, etc, specifically for the Z1/H1. The FS4 is awesome in SD - want my money back for the HDV...

Matt McEwen · August 3rd, 2006, 04:02 PM

Hi,

There is some known issues with TC and Canopus. The biggest problem we have had with our HDV support is that the individual camcorder manufacturers choose to put the recorded timecode into different areas within the MPEG transport stream. The NLE manufacturers also look in different areas for the TC. The reason you do not see these issues when capturing from camcorder (off tape) to the NLE is that the TC is basically restriped on capture (the correct TC value coming from AV/C communication between the camcorder and NLE). We are looking at what we can change to fix this.

One other issue with using HDV camcorders is that when you are recording to tape and disk simultaneously and triggering from the camcorder, there is always a small glitch in the beginning of the recording on FireStore or whatever is connected to the 1394 output (up to 2 seconds). This is caused by the codec on the camera re-syncing itself. The only HDV camera that gets around this issue is the GY-HD100/101 rev (A). On this model, you can set the priority for the codec to the tape or the 1394 output (FireStore). So, in your example Shawn, this may be why you were seeing glitches in the FireStore recordings in that every time you triggered the tape recorder, you can have a glitch in the FireStore recording of up to 2 seconds…Canopus may be tripping up on this.

Hope this explains a few things. I'll keep you posted as to our progress.

Matt

Shawn Alyasiri · August 4th, 2006, 07:38 AM

Matt,

Thanks very much - this is the most helpful answer I've received from your company - I had just given up on the HDV side after a while. Still extremely happy with the FS4 in regular DV mode. Please keep us up to date as things are resolved on the HDV side.

Can I assume that the FS100 is a completely different beast - ready for bulletproof work in Canopus Edius, or any other NLE supporting P2/MXF? I'm about to purchase one for use with the HVX200 & the SPX800 - and I want to use the files in Edius Broadcast (version 3.61 - and soon to be version 4). I'd hate to run into any similar problems/glitches, considering the additional investment, etc. I want to be able to trust it with DVCPRO50/HD content the same way that I do with SD DV content every week.

Thanks again for everything,
Shawn

Matt McEwen · August 4th, 2006, 10:08 AM

Hi Shawn,

The FS-100 has no known issues with Edius. FS-100 records DV/DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50 or DVCPRO HD MXF files in the P2 directory structure (including XML files and thumbnails). You import the clips to Edius like you would clips from a P2 card.

Hope that helps.

Matt

Shawn Alyasiri · August 4th, 2006, 11:38 AM

Yes - most helpful indeed, and you'll have my continued business because of it. I have an FS100 on order.

Thanks again.

Scott Vystrcil · August 9th, 2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt McEwen

Hope this explains a few things. I'll keep you posted as to our progress. Matt

Matt...any ETA? Any ideas on when this might be fixed. I like shooting and editing in HDV, but I hate the capture time.

Matt McEwen · August 10th, 2006, 04:58 PM

I don't have an accurate estimate at this point, but I will notify this forum when it is available.

Thanks,

Matt

Scott Vystrcil · August 11th, 2006, 08:47 AM

So my only option right now is to record HDV to tape, and if I want to use the FS-4, I have to downconvert to SD. Is that correct?

John Richard · September 11th, 2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt McEwen

I don't have an accurate estimate at this point, but I will notify this forum when it is available.

Thanks,

Matt

Matt - is there any new info available on the HDV resolution. I was one of those who bought the Canon H1 / Firestore FS4ProHD package and have as yet been unable to use it to do what it was sold to do. Additionally, the 6pin to 4 pin cable that came with the Firestore had a bad 4 pin male plug that broke a pin in the H1's 1394 jack and required Canon factory repair.

Sorry to say this, but the Firestore debacle has really left a bad taste in my mouth at this point. I hope they can sort things out soon as the idea of bypassing the capture function is fantastic - but it just does not work reliably or at all at this point in time.

Matt McEwen · September 15th, 2006, 10:46 AM

No new update at this point. I will let you know when I have more information. Unfortunately, this is very complicated stuff. There is such a variation between all the cameras and the NLEs and it has been very difficult to be able to make something that works with all models. But believe me, we are working on it and I will let you know when I have more news.

Thanks,

Matt

John Richard · September 18th, 2006, 11:40 AM

Thanks Matt for the reply (appears that you are one of the few sources at Focus Enhancement that is responsive and that is much appreciated).

There are a lot of us eagerly awaiting a fix.

Scott Vystrcil · September 25th, 2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Richard

There are a lot of us eagerly awaiting a fix.

Yes there are. :)

August 2nd, 2006, 02:36 PM	#1
Scott Vystrcil Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 116	FS-4 Pro HD--Any fix for HDV time code issue?? Matt? Hey guys...I have seen this issue posted before, but never saw a fix or workaround. I have a FS-4 Pro HD. How do I get Canopus to actually use the m2t files. It plays 3-5 secs and then locks up due to TC jumps. I have chosen to ignore TC in the menu options, to no avail. Any help would be great. I like editing full res, but hate the capture time I thought I was avoiding with a DTE device. __________________ Scott A. Vystrcil Equipment - Sony HVR-Z1U--Firestore FS-4 Pro HD (40GB)--Cartoni Focus F101 Editing - Canopus Edius Pro 4, Intel Pentium D 940 (3.2 GHz), 2GB, 74GB SATA 10K, 160GB SATAII, 300GB SATA, nVidia GeForce 6800 (256MB), Dell 20 in widescreen flat panel (2007WFP) http://watersedgefrisco.com http://vystrcil.com

August 3rd, 2006, 01:10 PM	#3
Scott Vystrcil Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 116	Hvr-z1u HVR-Z1U. Is there something that I am doing wrong with this camera? __________________ Scott A. Vystrcil Equipment - Sony HVR-Z1U--Firestore FS-4 Pro HD (40GB)--Cartoni Focus F101 Editing - Canopus Edius Pro 4, Intel Pentium D 940 (3.2 GHz), 2GB, 74GB SATA 10K, 160GB SATAII, 300GB SATA, nVidia GeForce 6800 (256MB), Dell 20 in widescreen flat panel (2007WFP) http://watersedgefrisco.com http://vystrcil.com

August 4th, 2006, 07:38 AM	#6
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	Thanks Matt - one more question - FS100 vs. Canopus Matt, Thanks very much - this is the most helpful answer I've received from your company - I had just given up on the HDV side after a while. Still extremely happy with the FS4 in regular DV mode. Please keep us up to date as things are resolved on the HDV side. Can I assume that the FS100 is a completely different beast - ready for bulletproof work in Canopus Edius, or any other NLE supporting P2/MXF? I'm about to purchase one for use with the HVX200 & the SPX800 - and I want to use the files in Edius Broadcast (version 3.61 - and soon to be version 4). I'd hate to run into any similar problems/glitches, considering the additional investment, etc. I want to be able to trust it with DVCPRO50/HD content the same way that I do with SD DV content every week. Thanks again for everything, Shawn

August 4th, 2006, 11:38 AM	#8
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	Thanks Matt Yes - most helpful indeed, and you'll have my continued business because of it. I have an FS100 on order. Thanks again.

August 11th, 2006, 08:47 AM	#11
Scott Vystrcil Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 116	So my only option right now is to record HDV to tape, and if I want to use the FS-4, I have to downconvert to SD. Is that correct? __________________ Scott A. Vystrcil Equipment - Sony HVR-Z1U--Firestore FS-4 Pro HD (40GB)--Cartoni Focus F101 Editing - Canopus Edius Pro 4, Intel Pentium D 940 (3.2 GHz), 2GB, 74GB SATA 10K, 160GB SATAII, 300GB SATA, nVidia GeForce 6800 (256MB), Dell 20 in widescreen flat panel (2007WFP) http://watersedgefrisco.com http://vystrcil.com

August 3rd, 2006, 10:50 AM	#2
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	Hi Scott, What camera are you using? Thanks, Matt

August 3rd, 2006, 02:50 PM	#4
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	I've had nothing but problems with the FS4 with HDV upgrade, using the Z1 or Canon H1 - even the HD100, in conjuction with Edius. Edius works with almost anything - and trys to work with what are corrupt files from the FS4HDV. I tried them in Vegas as well - bombed. The FS4 is great for use in SD/DV modes (use it that way every week), but the HDV files written are problematic, can cause crashes, are corrupt, etc. I was one of the first to buy the upgrade... I also like running things in local mode for some shoots, and the record button triggers problems on the FS4HDV, where it should be free-flowing. You can see the scrolling timecode on the LCD jump when you push the record button (ad hoc recording on tape, with a hopes of a master capture of everything on the firestore), and the files suffer (not/never the case in SD/DV). This is coming from a guy about to chunk into an FS100 any hour now... Fingers crossed. I'd love to find a final set of camera/firestore settings to use, and/or necessary firmware, etc, specifically for the Z1/H1. The FS4 is awesome in SD - want my money back for the HDV...

August 3rd, 2006, 04:02 PM	#5
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	Hi, There is some known issues with TC and Canopus. The biggest problem we have had with our HDV support is that the individual camcorder manufacturers choose to put the recorded timecode into different areas within the MPEG transport stream. The NLE manufacturers also look in different areas for the TC. The reason you do not see these issues when capturing from camcorder (off tape) to the NLE is that the TC is basically restriped on capture (the correct TC value coming from AV/C communication between the camcorder and NLE). We are looking at what we can change to fix this. One other issue with using HDV camcorders is that when you are recording to tape and disk simultaneously and triggering from the camcorder, there is always a small glitch in the beginning of the recording on FireStore or whatever is connected to the 1394 output (up to 2 seconds). This is caused by the codec on the camera re-syncing itself. The only HDV camera that gets around this issue is the GY-HD100/101 rev (A). On this model, you can set the priority for the codec to the tape or the 1394 output (FireStore). So, in your example Shawn, this may be why you were seeing glitches in the FireStore recordings in that every time you triggered the tape recorder, you can have a glitch in the FireStore recording of up to 2 seconds…Canopus may be tripping up on this. Hope this explains a few things. I'll keep you posted as to our progress. Matt

August 4th, 2006, 10:08 AM	#7
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	Hi Shawn, The FS-100 has no known issues with Edius. FS-100 records DV/DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50 or DVCPRO HD MXF files in the P2 directory structure (including XML files and thumbnails). You import the clips to Edius like you would clips from a P2 card. Hope that helps. Matt

August 10th, 2006, 04:58 PM	#10
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	I don't have an accurate estimate at this point, but I will notify this forum when it is available. Thanks, Matt

September 15th, 2006, 10:46 AM	#13
Matt McEwen Focus Enhancements Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Campbell, CA. Posts: 508	No new update at this point. I will let you know when I have more information. Unfortunately, this is very complicated stuff. There is such a variation between all the cameras and the NLEs and it has been very difficult to be able to make something that works with all models. But believe me, we are working on it and I will let you know when I have more news. Thanks, Matt

September 18th, 2006, 11:40 AM	#14
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	Thanks Matt for the reply (appears that you are one of the few sources at Focus Enhancement that is responsive and that is much appreciated). There are a lot of us eagerly awaiting a fix.