Firestore FS H200 and Canon XH-A1

Luke Garza · December 31st, 2009, 06:43 PM

I too am interested in getting this and i shoot at 24f on my xh a1. So it can in mp2t but not in quicktime. So when you bring it in to fcp how would it work, im guessing have to rewrap into a quicktime. If thats case how much time extra does this take because if takes a while to import then rewrap then i guess no point and should just get fsc

Ed Dooley · January 2nd, 2010, 01:27 PM

Although I have the JVC HD-110 (which isn't listed as compatible with the FS-H200 either), I do use QT (720P30) and the QT files definitely exceed (up to just under 32g) the 2 gig limit.
As for wrapping the m2t files, Tim Dashwood has a utility for that listed as a sticky in the JVC GY-HD forum. BTW, although my JVC HD-110 shouldn't be considered an "older" camera, I haven't been able to use External mode with it. Syncro works fine though, and having a tape backup is exactly what I want.
HTH,
Ed

Stephen F. Bodi · March 5th, 2010, 09:59 AM

I have a sony MRC1K that I have been using with my Canon XHA1. It has worked very well at all frame rates and formats. I am shopping around for another DTE device because I just purchases a refurbished Canon XLH1. My possible choices are another MRC1K, the Firestore FS-200 or the Datavideo DN-60 (which is supposed to start shipping this month) . The MRC1K will continue recording after tape runs out. You can bring in the footage through log and transfer in FCP or you can download the clips directly and then use a utility like clipwrap to rewrap the files as HDV .mov files. I am trying to find out more about the Datavideo DN-60 . There is a very good thread on the MRC1K on DVinfo worth checking out:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr...ml#post1482589

Mestizo Devon · March 5th, 2010, 03:10 PM

Does clipwrap work on the mac, and is it very time consuming?

Howard Wilczynski · June 3rd, 2010, 09:52 PM

Most of my questions have been answered, but before I order the H200...

Does the A1 have to have a tape in it when you record to the FS-H200? If so, what happens when you reach the end of the tape?

I'm about to record a show that is 1 hour 45 minutes with no intermission. I want to be sure I can just record without having to swap anything.

Thanks,
Howard

David Morgan · June 3rd, 2010, 11:53 PM

you don't need a tape in the camera to record to the FS. The tape is a backup if you use it. That being said, I've experienced a dropout or two every time I use the FS. Rolling a tape simultaneously has saved me. Don't know what happens when the tape reaches the end however.

Howard Wilczynski · June 4th, 2010, 07:11 AM

Thanks for the info. I'm curious if the "no tape" warning flashes the whole time too.

I'm surprised that there is still drop outs. I experience those with tapes all the time, I would have thought that direct to digital would have stopped that. e.g. I thought it was the tape.

I guess I will order it and play with amd without tape before the show to see what happens at the end of a tape.

Dave Stern · June 4th, 2010, 07:45 PM

I use the FS-V with the A1 (similar software I would assume) .. at the end of the tape, if you set the firestore recording manually (e.g. no syncro), such that you press record on the firestore then initiate record as usual on your canon, the firestore will continue to record even after the tape ends.

when I first got the firestore, I thought the camera had dropped (e.g. not sent) approx 10 frames to the firestore when my tape ended. however I just recorded a show the other night and I don't believe I got this missing video - my external audio recorder and video were exactly in sync at long past when the tape ended.

It could have been that the frames were not sent (in my original use) when I put in a new tape and pressed record - I think that's what happened (e.g. when the camera initiates the tape record function, it must have a gap of about 10 frames that aren't sent on firewire). the other night when I didn't get any missing video frames, I did not put in a new tape, I just let it keep running on the firestore. at least that gave me 1 hour of backup on tape. if you put in a new tape, be careful when you initiate record since you may get dropped frames (that won't be on tape either).

interestingly, eventhough I didn't get the CV model of the firestore (e.g. for the canon), the canon still shows on the display when the firestore is recording (red dot - separate from the tape indicator). although I believe what you don't get with that is the info on time left on the firestore, etc.

overall I've been very happy with the FS-V and the A1! (would have liked something higher resolution using the analog output of the camera however it was just too complex to go with another solution) .. but the direct to disk is not only a real time saver but is so convenient, makes things really easy.

Howard Wilczynski · June 6th, 2010, 12:10 AM

Dave, thank you for this post.

I will probably end up doing exactly what you say. Just not change tapes.
The show I will be recording is Chorus Line with no intermission. I do have a weekend before the show to play and I will try everything, but I'm guessing I will end up doing what you mentioned.

Thanks again,
Howard

Howard Wilczynski · June 6th, 2010, 11:10 AM

Since I won't have my Firestore until Friday I have a couple more very specific questions.

Does the "No tape" "red tape icon" flash then entire time you are recording when not using tape?
Do you even press (how) record on the camera when not using tape. Or just set the camera up for recording and press record on the firestore?
I'm thinking I should disable auto-shut off when recording without a tape. Is this true?

All three of those question apply to no tape, or using one tape as the first hour back up as you mentioned.

Thanks again,
HOward

Dave Stern · June 7th, 2010, 05:27 AM

on my hv-20 (for example), I record to the firestore and use no tape. Just turn on the camera & set it up, disable auto shut-off (as you say) and then hit record on the firestore. The camera displays as you would expect, and as it would if it were just on but nothing was happening.

on the A1, for example, when I record with tape and then let it run past the tape end, you will see the warning as you get to the end of the tape, yellow icon, then red tape icon with flashing warning message ("tape end"). the tape runs out and the message goes away, but I believe the icon stays red (not flashing) and the tape counter stays as it was at the end of the tape. you'll continue to see the red dot next to the USB icon on the monitor indicating that the firestore is continuing to record.

** important ** : I always make my physical connection between the firestore and the camera with both devices off. then turn on the firestore and then turn on the camera. DON'T plug the USB into the camera with the camera powered on. (stories of USB damage that way on the camera - better safe than sorry).

Howard Wilczynski · June 7th, 2010, 07:28 AM

Thanks again Dave.

When you say USB, you do mean firewire on the A1, right?

Dave Stern · June 7th, 2010, 07:14 PM

yes, firewire on the camera and USB to the PC .. same point though about connecting when power is off (I guess I was thinking about the USB but you're right, it's really for both ).. on the PC connection I just make sure my firestore is powered off when I make the physical connection, then poiwer up the firestore

Howard Wilczynski · June 7th, 2010, 08:59 PM

Got it and thanks for all the information.

Howard Wilczynski · June 11th, 2010, 02:32 PM

David,
Got my FS today, still reading the manual before I do anything.
They include two tabe to attach to CF cards to make them "easier" to remove.
Did you do that?

I don't have any CF cards with me at work (where I had it shipped), so I can't tell how hard it is to rremove them.

Thanks,
Howard

March 5th, 2010, 09:59 AM	#18
Stephen F. Bodi New Boot Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New York Metro Area Posts: 18	other DTE units... I have a sony MRC1K that I have been using with my Canon XHA1. It has worked very well at all frame rates and formats. I am shopping around for another DTE device because I just purchases a refurbished Canon XLH1. My possible choices are another MRC1K, the Firestore FS-200 or the Datavideo DN-60 (which is supposed to start shipping this month) . The MRC1K will continue recording after tape runs out. You can bring in the footage through log and transfer in FCP or you can download the clips directly and then use a utility like clipwrap to rewrap the files as HDV .mov files. I am trying to find out more about the Datavideo DN-60 . There is a very good thread on the MRC1K on DVinfo worth checking out: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr...ml#post1482589

June 3rd, 2010, 09:52 PM	#20
Howard Wilczynski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 71	Do you still need tape to record? Most of my questions have been answered, but before I order the H200... Does the A1 have to have a tape in it when you record to the FS-H200? If so, what happens when you reach the end of the tape? I'm about to record a show that is 1 hour 45 minutes with no intermission. I want to be sure I can just record without having to swap anything. Thanks, Howard

June 6th, 2010, 11:10 AM	#25
Howard Wilczynski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 71	A few more question Since I won't have my Firestore until Friday I have a couple more very specific questions. Does the "No tape" "red tape icon" flash then entire time you are recording when not using tape? Do you even press (how) record on the camera when not using tape. Or just set the camera up for recording and press record on the firestore? I'm thinking I should disable auto-shut off when recording without a tape. Is this true? All three of those question apply to no tape, or using one tape as the first hour back up as you mentioned. Thanks again, HOward

June 11th, 2010, 02:32 PM	#30
Howard Wilczynski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 71	Removing CF cards David, Got my FS today, still reading the manual before I do anything. They include two tabe to attach to CF cards to make them "easier" to remove. Did you do that? I don't have any CF cards with me at work (where I had it shipped), so I can't tell how hard it is to rremove them. Thanks, Howard

December 31st, 2009, 06:43 PM	#16
Luke Garza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 27	I too am interested in getting this and i shoot at 24f on my xh a1. So it can in mp2t but not in quicktime. So when you bring it in to fcp how would it work, im guessing have to rewrap into a quicktime. If thats case how much time extra does this take because if takes a while to import then rewrap then i guess no point and should just get fsc

January 2nd, 2010, 01:27 PM	#17
Ed Dooley Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Warren Vermont Posts: 73	Although I have the JVC HD-110 (which isn't listed as compatible with the FS-H200 either), I do use QT (720P30) and the QT files definitely exceed (up to just under 32g) the 2 gig limit. As for wrapping the m2t files, Tim Dashwood has a utility for that listed as a sticky in the JVC GY-HD forum. BTW, although my JVC HD-110 shouldn't be considered an "older" camera, I haven't been able to use External mode with it. Syncro works fine though, and having a tape backup is exactly what I want. HTH, Ed

March 5th, 2010, 03:10 PM	#19
Mestizo Devon Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: United States Posts: 290	Does clipwrap work on the mac, and is it very time consuming?

June 3rd, 2010, 11:53 PM	#21
David Morgan Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Burbank CA Posts: 466	you don't need a tape in the camera to record to the FS. The tape is a backup if you use it. That being said, I've experienced a dropout or two every time I use the FS. Rolling a tape simultaneously has saved me. Don't know what happens when the tape reaches the end however.

June 4th, 2010, 07:11 AM	#22
Howard Wilczynski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 71	Thanks for the info. I'm curious if the "no tape" warning flashes the whole time too. I'm surprised that there is still drop outs. I experience those with tapes all the time, I would have thought that direct to digital would have stopped that. e.g. I thought it was the tape. I guess I will order it and play with amd without tape before the show to see what happens at the end of a tape.

June 4th, 2010, 07:45 PM	#23
Dave Stern Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 391	I use the FS-V with the A1 (similar software I would assume) .. at the end of the tape, if you set the firestore recording manually (e.g. no syncro), such that you press record on the firestore then initiate record as usual on your canon, the firestore will continue to record even after the tape ends. when I first got the firestore, I thought the camera had dropped (e.g. not sent) approx 10 frames to the firestore when my tape ended. however I just recorded a show the other night and I don't believe I got this missing video - my external audio recorder and video were exactly in sync at long past when the tape ended. It could have been that the frames were not sent (in my original use) when I put in a new tape and pressed record - I think that's what happened (e.g. when the camera initiates the tape record function, it must have a gap of about 10 frames that aren't sent on firewire). the other night when I didn't get any missing video frames, I did not put in a new tape, I just let it keep running on the firestore. at least that gave me 1 hour of backup on tape. if you put in a new tape, be careful when you initiate record since you may get dropped frames (that won't be on tape either). interestingly, eventhough I didn't get the CV model of the firestore (e.g. for the canon), the canon still shows on the display when the firestore is recording (red dot - separate from the tape indicator). although I believe what you don't get with that is the info on time left on the firestore, etc. overall I've been very happy with the FS-V and the A1! (would have liked something higher resolution using the analog output of the camera however it was just too complex to go with another solution) .. but the direct to disk is not only a real time saver but is so convenient, makes things really easy.

June 6th, 2010, 12:10 AM	#24
Howard Wilczynski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 71	Dave, thank you for this post. I will probably end up doing exactly what you say. Just not change tapes. The show I will be recording is Chorus Line with no intermission. I do have a weekend before the show to play and I will try everything, but I'm guessing I will end up doing what you mentioned. Thanks again, Howard

June 7th, 2010, 05:27 AM	#26
Dave Stern Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 391	on my hv-20 (for example), I record to the firestore and use no tape. Just turn on the camera & set it up, disable auto shut-off (as you say) and then hit record on the firestore. The camera displays as you would expect, and as it would if it were just on but nothing was happening. on the A1, for example, when I record with tape and then let it run past the tape end, you will see the warning as you get to the end of the tape, yellow icon, then red tape icon with flashing warning message ("tape end"). the tape runs out and the message goes away, but I believe the icon stays red (not flashing) and the tape counter stays as it was at the end of the tape. you'll continue to see the red dot next to the USB icon on the monitor indicating that the firestore is continuing to record. important : I always make my physical connection between the firestore and the camera with both devices off. then turn on the firestore and then turn on the camera. DON'T plug the USB into the camera with the camera powered on. (stories of USB damage that way on the camera - better safe than sorry).

June 7th, 2010, 07:28 AM	#27
Howard Wilczynski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 71	Thanks again Dave. When you say USB, you do mean firewire on the A1, right?

June 7th, 2010, 07:14 PM	#28
Dave Stern Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 391	yes, firewire on the camera and USB to the PC .. same point though about connecting when power is off (I guess I was thinking about the USB but you're right, it's really for both ).. on the PC connection I just make sure my firestore is powered off when I make the physical connection, then poiwer up the firestore

June 7th, 2010, 08:59 PM	#29
Howard Wilczynski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 71	Got it and thanks for all the information.