firestore/ portable drives

Rob Lohman · June 24th, 2002, 02:26 AM

Jay, if you are using the XL1, the only was is to break open the
camera and directly pull the signal from inside. You are ofcourse
voiding your warranty here and you have to know electronics
to do it (if it is possible). Otherwise you need professional
camera to do this.

Jay Henderson · June 24th, 2002, 01:39 PM

okay, so i guess i have to live with tape / or firestore to hard drive.
so the best i can do is shoot on mini dv tape, or shoot through firestore to a hard drive...and the consensus is firestore to hard drive is the same as tape (in quality)?
correct me if i'm wrong, but can't you connect a laptop to your XL1 via firewire or other cables and shoot directly to it (assuming you have FCP on it) with the use of an external h drive? i mean actually shoot to it, not just transfer footage.
thanks guys.

Rob Lohman · June 25th, 2002, 02:32 AM

Quality will not be different at all what medium you use as long
as you using the DV signal. DV is 100% the same on miniDV
tape, the firestore or your computer.

Yes, you can record directly into your pc. Whatever the XL1 is
looking at it puts out over firewire, so if you start your capture
program you can record it, even when the camera is not recording
anything itself. You cannot, however, trigger the computer to
start the recording exactly when you hit REC. This might be
possible with future software, but for now, you have to do it
manually. But it is possible. I did it myself a couple of times.

Jay Henderson · June 25th, 2002, 02:59 PM

thanks for the info. glad to see someone else is experimenting.
p.s. why isn't holland in the world cup? they're one of my favorite teams...."clockwork orange" and all that.

Rob Lohman · June 26th, 2002, 02:47 AM

I'm not into soccer Jay, but there is a qualification thing I believe.
They failed to pass that. Doh.

Al Holston · July 1st, 2002, 11:21 PM

Did Vic ever get his Firestore to work? I uderstand there is a ver. 2 out which is supposed to solve some of the problems along with Mac's OSX 10.1.5. update.
I am working on mounting a 3.5" drive in the Firesotore (on paper only at this time, no hardware, will them bread-board up first; will let you know if it works. I have found a very small firewire interface for the dirve, but the switching +/- 5 vdc is to the drive is the problem that needs working out so everything can run on a battery.

Chris Hurd · July 2nd, 2002, 12:10 AM

Have not heard back from Vic; Matt McKewan from Videonics has made an attempt to contact him but no answer yet.

Steve Nunez · July 12th, 2002, 12:51 PM

I'm just about out the door to pick up a Firestore and LaCie 30GB Pocketdrive.
I've read that it can be used alongside tape as it will allow for a perfect copy onto the attached fw HD as the XL records onto tape- my question is: can an XL1S shoot without a tape at all? I realize i may see the "No Tape" message- but will I still be able to shoot while the Firestore records onto the fw hd? I'm looking for a totally tapeless solution.

(I'm betting I can- but am hoping for a confirmation)
Thanks fellas.

Al Holston · July 12th, 2002, 08:02 PM

Yes, you can use the firestore with the XL1S without tape; but the firestore will be capturing everything the camera sees, no "start-stop" as with tape; why NOT use tape and get the videocam advantage of being able to "start" when you want to record, using the record/pause release; and "stop" when you don't want to tape (you save disk space this way. This gives you a "back-up" of your shoot.
Also the "Pocket Drive: is only 5400 rpm vs DV recommended speed of 7200 rpm for hard drives; 5400 should work, but I have not had experience with it. al.

Steve Nunez · July 12th, 2002, 08:57 PM

Thanks aholston-

would turning the cam on and pressing record work- then turn the cam off or to standby to pause? Or do I absolutely need tape?

I do alot of casual taping which has allowed for some excellent "on the spot" video captures- knowing I don't need tape would only encourage me to tape more- needing to run tape sorta defeats the purpose for me personally-

Al Holston · July 13th, 2002, 09:41 AM

Steve,
To use the "record", start-stop" functions of the camera, you NEED to have tape in the camera, or this function is disabled.
This includes"record-pause", too. The Firestore gets a signal frm the camera when "pause" is punched and creates a new file for each take, otherwise, you wind up with 1.9 gig files, while "contionusly" recording (and thats what you would be doing without tape.
Al

Jeff Donald · July 13th, 2002, 12:09 PM

This falls under the think twice before you try this at home. In some camcorders and VCR's this will work. I have not tried it in the XL1, so it may or may not work. Buy a cheap mini DV tape. Cut the tape and remove all the tape. Put the empty shell into the camcorder. Try starting and stopping recording on the camcorder. Like I said, it works on some, not on others. The only downside is if it doesn't work you wasted a cheap min DV tape.

Jeff

Steve Nunez · July 13th, 2002, 06:35 PM

Can't anything be simple?

Just when the Firestore was looking like the perfect "tapeless" solution- if anyone has a Firestore and has a tape they don't mind butchering- i'm willing to bet we'd all love to know wether it works with then pause/record feature-

thanks to anyone willing to try.

Chris Hurd · July 13th, 2002, 11:02 PM

Uh, excuse me here, but actually I'm pretty sure that the XL1S *can* control pause/record to the FireStore *without* a cassette in the camera. This is one of the new features of the XL1S. It's called DV Control. The whole point is to enable the very thing you're asking about. FireStore does indeed have a slave mode for rec/pause recording in addition to its free run mode. The XL1S DV Control completes the picture... no tape required. The GL2 supports this as well (but not, of course, the XL1 or GL1). Hope this helps,

Al Holston · July 14th, 2002, 10:50 AM

Thanks for the update Chris.
I have the XL1, so I know it needed a tape with the Firestore. Firestore instgructions & site didn't indicate anythnig about the XL1S "DV" mode (must be an older Firestore I was playing with, which is now back to factory for updating).
It's good to know that the XL1S has this feature -- yet another reason for updating my camera. al

June 24th, 2002, 02:26 AM	#16
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Jay, if you are using the XL1, the only was is to break open the camera and directly pull the signal from inside. You are ofcourse voiding your warranty here and you have to know electronics to do it (if it is possible). Otherwise you need professional camera to do this. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 25th, 2002, 02:32 AM	#18
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Quality will not be different at all what medium you use as long as you using the DV signal. DV is 100% the same on miniDV tape, the firestore or your computer. Yes, you can record directly into your pc. Whatever the XL1 is looking at it puts out over firewire, so if you start your capture program you can record it, even when the camera is not recording anything itself. You cannot, however, trigger the computer to start the recording exactly when you hit REC. This might be possible with future software, but for now, you have to do it manually. But it is possible. I did it myself a couple of times. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 26th, 2002, 02:47 AM	#20
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I'm not into soccer Jay, but there is a qualification thing I believe. They failed to pass that. Doh. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 1st, 2002, 11:21 PM	#21
Al Holston Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 51	Firestore problems Did Vic ever get his Firestore to work? I uderstand there is a ver. 2 out which is supposed to solve some of the problems along with Mac's OSX 10.1.5. update. I am working on mounting a 3.5" drive in the Firesotore (on paper only at this time, no hardware, will them bread-board up first; will let you know if it works. I have found a very small firewire interface for the dirve, but the switching +/- 5 vdc is to the drive is the problem that needs working out so everything can run on a battery. __________________ Al

July 2nd, 2002, 12:10 AM	#22
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,369 Images: 513	Have not heard back from Vic; Matt McKewan from Videonics has made an attempt to contact him but no answer yet. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 24th, 2002, 01:39 PM	#17
Jay Henderson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 45	okay, so i guess i have to live with tape / or firestore to hard drive. so the best i can do is shoot on mini dv tape, or shoot through firestore to a hard drive...and the consensus is firestore to hard drive is the same as tape (in quality)? correct me if i'm wrong, but can't you connect a laptop to your XL1 via firewire or other cables and shoot directly to it (assuming you have FCP on it) with the use of an external h drive? i mean actually shoot to it, not just transfer footage. thanks guys.

June 25th, 2002, 02:59 PM	#19
Jay Henderson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 45	thanks for the info. glad to see someone else is experimenting. p.s. why isn't holland in the world cup? they're one of my favorite teams...."clockwork orange" and all that.

July 12th, 2002, 12:51 PM	#23
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	I'm just about out the door to pick up a Firestore and LaCie 30GB Pocketdrive. I've read that it can be used alongside tape as it will allow for a perfect copy onto the attached fw HD as the XL records onto tape- my question is: can an XL1S shoot without a tape at all? I realize i may see the "No Tape" message- but will I still be able to shoot while the Firestore records onto the fw hd? I'm looking for a totally tapeless solution. (I'm betting I can- but am hoping for a confirmation) Thanks fellas. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

July 12th, 2002, 08:02 PM	#24
Al Holston Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 51	Yes, you can use the firestore with the XL1S without tape; but the firestore will be capturing everything the camera sees, no "start-stop" as with tape; why NOT use tape and get the videocam advantage of being able to "start" when you want to record, using the record/pause release; and "stop" when you don't want to tape (you save disk space this way. This gives you a "back-up" of your shoot. Also the "Pocket Drive: is only 5400 rpm vs DV recommended speed of 7200 rpm for hard drives; 5400 should work, but I have not had experience with it. al. __________________ Al

July 12th, 2002, 08:57 PM	#25
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Thanks aholston- would turning the cam on and pressing record work- then turn the cam off or to standby to pause? Or do I absolutely need tape? I do alot of casual taping which has allowed for some excellent "on the spot" video captures- knowing I don't need tape would only encourage me to tape more- needing to run tape sorta defeats the purpose for me personally- __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

July 13th, 2002, 09:41 AM	#26
Al Holston Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 51	Steve, To use the "record", start-stop" functions of the camera, you NEED to have tape in the camera, or this function is disabled. This includes"record-pause", too. The Firestore gets a signal frm the camera when "pause" is punched and creates a new file for each take, otherwise, you wind up with 1.9 gig files, while "contionusly" recording (and thats what you would be doing without tape. Al __________________ Al

July 13th, 2002, 12:09 PM	#27
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	This falls under the think twice before you try this at home. In some camcorders and VCR's this will work. I have not tried it in the XL1, so it may or may not work. Buy a cheap mini DV tape. Cut the tape and remove all the tape. Put the empty shell into the camcorder. Try starting and stopping recording on the camcorder. Like I said, it works on some, not on others. The only downside is if it doesn't work you wasted a cheap min DV tape. Jeff

July 13th, 2002, 06:35 PM	#28
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Can't anything be simple? Just when the Firestore was looking like the perfect "tapeless" solution- if anyone has a Firestore and has a tape they don't mind butchering- i'm willing to bet we'd all love to know wether it works with then pause/record feature- thanks to anyone willing to try. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

July 13th, 2002, 11:02 PM	#29
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,369 Images: 513	Uh, excuse me here, but actually I'm pretty sure that the XL1S can control pause/record to the FireStore without a cassette in the camera. This is one of the new features of the XL1S. It's called DV Control. The whole point is to enable the very thing you're asking about. FireStore does indeed have a slave mode for rec/pause recording in addition to its free run mode. The XL1S DV Control completes the picture... no tape required. The GL2 supports this as well (but not, of course, the XL1 or GL1). Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 14th, 2002, 10:50 AM	#30
Al Holston Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 51	Thanks for the update Chris. I have the XL1, so I know it needed a tape with the Firestore. Firestore instgructions & site didn't indicate anythnig about the XL1S "DV" mode (must be an older Firestore I was playing with, which is now back to factory for updating). It's good to know that the XL1S has this feature -- yet another reason for updating my camera. al __________________ Al