Firestore FS3 various questions

[Matt McEwen]

Hello Murat,

I have heard no issues with the DSR-250P and FS-3 - nor should there be any. We have a demo DSR-250 (NTSC) we use with FS-3 all the time and it works fine.

I have not used the Matrox RTX.100, but have used FS-3 with the RT2500 and DigiSuite successfully. One caution note is to use a separate FireWire card on your system as it is not possible to connect the FS-3 drive to the FireWire port on the Matrox card.

It shouldn't matter what format your computer's disk drive is as long as you are running Windows 98SE, ME, 2000 or XP. Each of these drives will recognize the FS-3 drive as an external FireWire drive and you can either stream direct from the drive to the timeline or copy the files to the computer's hard drive.

FS-3 does split the files up into 9 minute, 13 second clips while recording, but automatically starts a new file when the end is reached so no frames are lost. All clips can be pieced together in the timeline easily and with no dropped frames between files. Each start and stop of a recording is also saved as a single, manageable file.

Hope this helps.

Matt McEwen

[Murat Tunaz]

thank you matt for the info.

your talking about one single managable file. for example i have made a videoshoot about 1 hour. with this single managable file i get the whole shoot in one videostream (one hour length) or must i still import all single video streams (9 min) to get the one hour shoot to the timeline in premiere?

btw: what about index marking? if i set an index its on tape but will it be on the fs3 too?

thank you

murat

[Matt McEwen]

Hi Murat,

A one hour segment created on FireStore will be made up of about six 9 minute, 13 second (2GB) files. These files are created automatically at time intervals on FireStore and no frames are lost between files. When you edit, all the 2GB segments will be available to you NLE and named sequentially. To get them into a timeline, highlight all six segments in the NLE bin and then drag them as a group into the timeline. As they are named sequentially, they will automatically drop in order into the timeline. They will also play seamlessly as a single one hour clip. So, even though the one hour segment is broken up into smaller files, there is very little steps involved to use the entire segment in the timeline. Hope I have explained it better.

As far as index marking is concerned, FS-3 does not recognize these markers. But, we do have a different way of working. The fact is that when you are recording to FireStore, you are essentially capturing your footage to disk. Therefore, you can create your own index at any time on FireStore by simply just pressing the REC button during a record session. This will immediately start a new clip on disk without dropping any frames. So you can create individual clips on disk as if you were marking in and out points when capturing. You can also mark these clips into a "Keeper" folder on disk so that when you get back to the edit suite, you only import the clips you marked as keepers. All the other clips are also there, they are just in a different folder. This feature will be enhanced in an upcoming software release due out soon...stay tuned!

Keep in mind that FS-3 is field upgradable so that as new FireStore software versions are released, they can be downloaded into units in the field by the customer.

Matt McEwen

[Butch Jones]

Firestore is the best thing since sliced bread for me.

I have shot several projects using it now and am 100% sold. I have cut my production time each week by over 4 hours just by using this device.

If you can imagine a weekly production that takes 8-12 hours for post production and cutting that by 1/4 to 1/2 it is worth every penny.

[Rob Wilson]

I've done some reading/research and can't seem to find an answer to: Can you dump from the FS straight to a standalone firewire compatible hard disk in the field? In situations where you shoot beyond the capacity of the unit, I'd like to download quickly to another device. I realize a laptop will work but mine only has a 20 gig drive so that won't do it. Thanks in advance for answers.

[Matt McEwen]

Hi Rob,

The nice thing with FS-3 is that it has removable disk drives...once you fill one up, you simply remove the drive and replace it with another. The internal drive slot is designed around the FireStore FSHDD-1 FireWire drive (available in 40GB - 3 hr. or 80GB - 6 hr.). It is also possible to use any FireWire drive and connect it to the "HDD I/O" port on the side of FS-3. In this situation, once the internal drive is full, FS-3 automatically begins recording to any external FireWire drives connected. You can daisy chain up to 4 drives from the external port allowing you to achieve extremely long record times.

Hope this helps.
Matt McEwen

[Don Berube]

Hi Rob,

You could always attach your second FireWire drive to the FireWire port on your laptop, then attach the FireStore hard drive pod to the FireWire "Loop Through" of that second drive - this would allow you to download your captured footage to that second FireWire drive through your laptop. One thing though is that if it is a PC laptop, it will have a 4-pin FireWire port which does not supply power to external devices. You would have to use a special cable which takes power from the USB port to power the hard drive. I have a MacAlly PHR-250cc FireWire drive enclosure which came with this cable adaptor. I formatted the drive with the FS-3 for FAT-32 which allows the drive to operate with both a Mac and a PC. When I use the drive with my PC laptop, I use that USB power cable to power the drive and it works fine. I'm very happy with the MacAlly enclosure as it only cost $59 and it included a FireWire 6-pin to 6-pin cable, a USB 2.0 cable and the USB powe4r adaptor cable, plus a nice vinyl case. Great deal and very small http://www.macally.com/spec/firewire.../phr250cc.html

- don

[Daniel Kohl]

I recently used the FS3 on a JVC DR-DV5000 while working for a production company freelance.

I'm impressed-

Especially because I had to edit the material as well. I don't really want to go back to tape, after using the FS3.

My preferred camera however - Is my own "old" XL1 - it has seen a lot of action, but is still going relatively strong.

That's a lie ... My XL1 is showing signs of age, and after having it overhauled last year by Canon I have had two tapes in the last four months with strange signal disturbances. The same ones I had before I sent it in to Canon. Before I have my XL1 looked at again, I've decided to turn it into a hard drive camera. I have none of the type of disturbances I've encountered with tape when I capture directly to my computer using B-TV, or FCP.

One thing that would interest me before I get into investing in this expensive upgrade: is does the FS3 indicate that it is recording through the XL1 viewfinder like it does with the JVC. Or is the only indication of recording - the red LED on the firestore itself?

A question for Matt McEwen or anyone who has been using the FS3 in the field.

Thanks

Daniel Kohl

[Matt McEwen]

Hi Daniel,

The integration between the JVC GY-DV5000 and the FireStore DR-DV5000 disk recorder is unique and the only solution at the moment that has the REC indicator in the viewfinder as well as time on disk remaining and disk recorder status. We worked with JVC to create this integration and it took some work on JVC's behalf for the record indicator to appear in the viewfinder which is a great feature.

JVC added a 52-pin connector on the rear of the GY-DV5000 camcorder which allows external devices such as the FireStore DR-DV5000 disk recorder and the JVC KA-DV5000 network adapter to integrate tightly with the camera.

Hope that helps.

Matt McEwen
Focus Enhancements

[Daniel Kohl]

Thanks for your quick reply Matt.

I’m just curious as to how people using the FS3 with the XL1 are dealing with this drawback.

I mean, I’m sure that I’m not the only cameraman who has, in the heat of shooting, not noticed that the tape is not running. Either because I didn’t really stop shooting after the last take, and after filming the floor and my knee for two minutes push the record button only to go into standby when the action starts. Or I didn’t hit the record button firmly enough and only notice that the camera is not running because none of the indicators in the viewfinder are moving – and that with blinking red dot and TC display.

I don’t like the idea of having to take my eye off the viewfinder to reassure myself that the recorder is really recording. This almost offsets the advantage of being able to start recording via the slave function. If I have to look at the recorder to see if it’s running then I can push a button on it to start it as well.

Are there any workarounds for this problem? An LED extension cable that one can glue into the viewfinder? An acoustic signal?! , Vibration alarm?

Hopefully,

[Daniel Kohl]

Even though I feel like I’m talking to myself, I’m going to answer one of the previous questions. It occurred to me, (and I hope I understand this right) that the record trigger for the FS3 connected to the XL1 only works when the FS3 is in Sync/Slave mode. That means that the record indicator for the tape movement of the XL1 would also be the record indicator for the FS3.

The only remaining question is – what happens when the XL1 starts recording to tape before the FS3 has completely booted, and what happens when the tape has run out while the FS3 is recording? I think that it reasonable to assume that FS3 has to be fully booted before it can recognize that the record button has been pressed. But will the FS3 continue to record after the tape part of the camera has stopped?

I hope I’m not babbling here. These are just some things that are concerning me before I invest in this system.

[Daniel Kohl]

Hi,

I just used the JVC GY-DV5000 with integrated FS3 again yesterday. I want to correct something I criticized on it in a previous post. I’m getting used to the viewfinder symbolism – and the blinking symbol of a torn piece of film does indicate that the FS3 is in the process of booting, and is not ready to record to disc. If it doesn’t stop blinking after around 30 seconds, then there is a problem. After about 10 -15 seconds the symbol changes to a solid looking symbol. I’m sure that all this is described in the GY-DV5000 handbook – but I haven’t had the time to peruse through it. My feeling is that stuff like that should be intuitive.

I realized that what bothers me about the menu system on the FS3 is that there is no arrow up button – which makes scrolling through the menus frustrating. If one scrolls past an item, one has to scroll through the whole list again to get to the item one wants. I find myself doing the rounds two or three times, sometimes. I also don’t like the fact that some times the option "select”(SEL) is assigned to a buttonthat doesn’t do anything. Simply choosing an article and then exiting is what is called for. If that’s the case, the option "select”(SEL) shouldn’t appear as a choice.

The TC display on the FC3 goes to 0:00:00:00 when it’s not recording, even when it is in eternal TC mode. I wish that it would always display the current TC so that I can compare it with the camera TC between shots. It may just be psychological – but it would help me know that everything is working and in sync.

Another thing: I edit with FCP 4, I copy the media from the FS3 HDD onto my internal HDD and then drag the folders into FCP’s browser window. Every time I have done this in the past, FCP has given me a warning that some number of files could not be imported. I haven’t let this bother me until now. But while editing this time I noticed that an important clip was missing. I checked the tape, since I am recording in syncro slave mode, to see if I had inadvertently not been recording at the time (I’ve admitted that I am prone to this), but to my horror (relief) the missing clip was on tape. I went back to the original folders from the FS3 on my internal HDD and found that the missing clip was there as well.

Why did FCP reject the clip when I imported it with all the other clips together? FCP accepted the clip alone without a problem, using the same drag and drop method I used for the folders.

I was also wondering why there is an on/off switch on the Firewire HDD. Is it a sort of record safe? That cost me a few minutes of searching, yesterday when I set up the camera. Someone had switched the HDD off and stuck it in the FS3 which caused a "no disc” warning to show up on the FS3. I’m wondering what the thinking was behind that. It’s no problem if one knows it’s there, but until you know , it’s just another little thing that can cost some time finding.

I also noticed that FCP did not recognize my camera/recorder while the FS HDD was connected to the second Firewire port on my G4. Is that normal? I dismounted the FS HDD, and then everything was all right.

To end on a positive note, I just finished the editing on the shoot from yesterday and I cut it in record time – a lot of credit to the FS3.

[Bankim Jain]

1. How can I record only selected shots whilst recording non stop on Panasonic AYDVC200 (Large DV Camcorder) ? Cox i have the same camera to record non stop of say some conference but simultanously i have FS3 connected to it . Is there any way to control whats gets recorded and what doesnt on FS3 parallely with non stop recording going on on tape in DVC200 camcorder...Any wired remote or thing like that....I hope you uinderstand this concern of mine before purchasing such a costly product.
2. Fs3 Accepts 6 pin or 4pin input as My Panasonic & PD both gives 4pin output
3. If i use it with DV200 then it gets attached to my anton battery hot shoe behing camera...howd i use it with PD.
4. I have read on this forum that FS3 & FS1 takes sometime to boot...how long does it really take to boot. When we shoot we dont keep our cameras on always .. there are time when we turn off the camera when we dont see happening say in a marriage function but suddenly we need to record so we turn on the camera and loooo 5secs we are rolling on tape ... how much does these firestore units require time to boot up ?

[Daniel Kohl]

Hi Bankim,

As far as I can tell, there are two additional modes in the FS3to sync slave (record triggered by the record button on your camera) but I think they only make sense together with the JVC cameras. You can do what you’re talking about by putting the FS3 in local mode and it works like a video recorder. You can have your camera running the whole time, and when you want to record with the FS3 you just push record on the FS3 itself. Pushing record again will stop the FS3 recording and you will have a new clip for the next time you push record. This will not effect what is going on with your Panasonic in any way – except for some camera jiggle when pushing buttons on the FS3. But I think it comes with an IR remote control as well, so that should prevent that.

You can adapt any 4 pin into a 6 pin either with the right cable or an adapter plug. Since the FS3 gets its power from its own battery system the power supplying pins on the FS3 are not essential to its functioning.

I don’t understand your third question, what is a PD

I find that the FS3 takes about 10 to 15 seconds to boot (I haven’t timed it yet). It’s so long though, that I turn the camera on whenever I even suspect that something is about to happen that I want to shoot. It’s a bit too long for my taste. I leave the camera on a lot more than just with tape. Tape is ready to shoot in about half the time as the FS3 when the camera and FS3 are completely off. If the camera is on and the FS3 is booted, the FS3 records simultaneously with the tape.

I hope that this is some help to you,
Matt McEwen should be able to answer you questions more exactly.

[Bankim Jain]

Thanks for your reply. Now the way out is to take practicals in !!! I Have ordered my FS3 and should be with me in a weeks time or so...I shall post my experiance with it till then cheers !!!

Happy Firestoring !