From Tape to Firestore at DVinfo.net

Jose Ramada · August 30th, 2007, 07:04 PM

I would like your advice about any quality loss capturing recorded footage on tape to a firestore drive and then moving the recorded files to the computer. Is it a bad idea ? I never felt transporting the Firestore drive with me for handheld shots very comfortable (that firewire cable is not practical, Bbox is heavy). Thanks to all.

Perrone Ford · August 30th, 2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose Ramada

I would like your advice about any quality loss capturing recorded footage on tape to a firestore drive and then moving the recorded files to the computer. Is it a bad idea ? I never felt transporting the Firestore drive with me for handheld shots very comfortable (that firewire cable is not practical, Bbox is heavy). Thanks to all.

There is no generational loss going from Tape to HDD. It's a bit for bit copy. Same with going from Firestore to the computer. My only question is why you'd use the Firestore as a middle-man. Why not capture tape straight to computer?

I'm not even aware how you'd go from tape in a camera to firestore in the same camera. Unless you're talking about dubbing camera to camera.

Randall Allen · August 31st, 2007, 06:48 AM

Use my GL-2 to do it all the time. Why? I can capture the tape someone is bringing me to edit while my computer is compiling the project I just finished or other tasks I have the computer doing at the time.

Randy

Jose Ramada · August 31st, 2007, 06:10 PM

Thanks for your prompt support. And what do you think about footage quality (which one is better or no difference at all) in these situations:

1- recording directly through the camera on the Firestore or,

2- recording on tape first and then playing back the tape and recording it on the Firestore

3- will the signal be compressed again in situation 2? Or it is just a matter of copying.

If there is no difference between the 2 scenarios I think it is unecessary to be arrested by the huge and heavy Firestore and use it only for capturing and cutting footage while we are doing something else in our computer and for studio work.

Your opinion will be very precious.
Thanks

Perrone Ford · August 31st, 2007, 10:52 PM

This is not analog tape we're talking about. This is a bit for bit copy over firewire. If you want to go to the internal tape then go for it. I just see no use in going from tape to the firestore and THEN to the computer hard drive.

I also try not to capture things to my computer while it's rendering. Dropped frames is a risk.

Jose Ramada · September 1st, 2007, 12:48 PM

Hi Perrone,

Thanks for your reply. I totally agree with you about the no use in going from one to another as everybody can capture any tape through the computer firewire port. I just wanted to be sure about no signal loss in those scenarios and conclude that the only main advantage in having a Firestore is to have the clips ready for editing because tapeless recording sometimes fails for some reason. Together with size and weight this seems to be a very expensive solution. Do you agree ?

Perrone Ford · September 1st, 2007, 09:25 PM

I'm afraid I do not agree. I'll give you my workflow from last week.

2 camera operators go to Orlando to shoot a 2 day conference. They take the DVX100, the Firestore, and a 500GB external firewire drive, as well as a laptop.

Day one they shoot 5 hours of video. Most of it, 1.5 - 2hr uninterrupted presentation. That evening, they dump the firestore to the external drive via the laptop, and clear the firestore.

Day 2 they shoot 3.5 hours of video, get in a car, and drive back.

Monday, I hook the firestore to the editing machine and copy all that data. I open it in Vegas and take a look at the footage. Then save it raw as a Vegas file. Tuesday, I dump all the data from the external drive to the editing machine, take a look in Vegas, and save that to a different Vegas project.

Much of my work involves long-form shooting with no interruption. In some cases, I can shoot 4-5 hours of continuous video. In the months (maybe a year now) since I've had the firestore, I have not had one moment's trouble with it. I now shoot completely tapeless. In some cases I may roll a tape independently, if I absolutely CANNOT afford to lose the recording, but that is probably less than 5% of what I do.

The Firestore comes with a belt clip. So if you don't want to place it on the camera, you can wear it like a belt-battery pack and only have a firewire cable attached to the cam. I rarely do this.

In my use, the Firestore has proven reliable, and effective, and worth every penny we spent on it.

Jose Ramada · September 3rd, 2007, 05:38 PM

Thanks Perrone for your valuable information. Everything is much more clear now.

August 30th, 2007, 07:04 PM	#1
Jose Ramada New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Valadares - Portugal Posts: 24	From Tape to Firestore I would like your advice about any quality loss capturing recorded footage on tape to a firestore drive and then moving the recorded files to the computer. Is it a bad idea ? I never felt transporting the Firestore drive with me for handheld shots very comfortable (that firewire cable is not practical, Bbox is heavy). Thanks to all.

August 31st, 2007, 06:48 AM	#3
Randall Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 192	Do it all the time.... Use my GL-2 to do it all the time. Why? I can capture the tape someone is bringing me to edit while my computer is compiling the project I just finished or other tasks I have the computer doing at the time. Randy

August 31st, 2007, 06:10 PM	#4
Jose Ramada New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Valadares - Portugal Posts: 24	Thanks for your prompt support. And what do you think about footage quality (which one is better or no difference at all) in these situations: 1- recording directly through the camera on the Firestore or, 2- recording on tape first and then playing back the tape and recording it on the Firestore 3- will the signal be compressed again in situation 2? Or it is just a matter of copying. If there is no difference between the 2 scenarios I think it is unecessary to be arrested by the huge and heavy Firestore and use it only for capturing and cutting footage while we are doing something else in our computer and for studio work. Your opinion will be very precious. Thanks

August 31st, 2007, 10:52 PM	#5
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	This is not analog tape we're talking about. This is a bit for bit copy over firewire. If you want to go to the internal tape then go for it. I just see no use in going from tape to the firestore and THEN to the computer hard drive. I also try not to capture things to my computer while it's rendering. Dropped frames is a risk.

September 1st, 2007, 12:48 PM	#6
Jose Ramada New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Valadares - Portugal Posts: 24	Hi Perrone, Thanks for your reply. I totally agree with you about the no use in going from one to another as everybody can capture any tape through the computer firewire port. I just wanted to be sure about no signal loss in those scenarios and conclude that the only main advantage in having a Firestore is to have the clips ready for editing because tapeless recording sometimes fails for some reason. Together with size and weight this seems to be a very expensive solution. Do you agree ?

September 1st, 2007, 09:25 PM	#7
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I'm afraid I do not agree. I'll give you my workflow from last week. 2 camera operators go to Orlando to shoot a 2 day conference. They take the DVX100, the Firestore, and a 500GB external firewire drive, as well as a laptop. Day one they shoot 5 hours of video. Most of it, 1.5 - 2hr uninterrupted presentation. That evening, they dump the firestore to the external drive via the laptop, and clear the firestore. Day 2 they shoot 3.5 hours of video, get in a car, and drive back. Monday, I hook the firestore to the editing machine and copy all that data. I open it in Vegas and take a look at the footage. Then save it raw as a Vegas file. Tuesday, I dump all the data from the external drive to the editing machine, take a look in Vegas, and save that to a different Vegas project. Much of my work involves long-form shooting with no interruption. In some cases, I can shoot 4-5 hours of continuous video. In the months (maybe a year now) since I've had the firestore, I have not had one moment's trouble with it. I now shoot completely tapeless. In some cases I may roll a tape independently, if I absolutely CANNOT afford to lose the recording, but that is probably less than 5% of what I do. The Firestore comes with a belt clip. So if you don't want to place it on the camera, you can wear it like a belt-battery pack and only have a firewire cable attached to the cam. I rarely do this. In my use, the Firestore has proven reliable, and effective, and worth every penny we spent on it.

September 3rd, 2007, 05:38 PM	#8
Jose Ramada New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Valadares - Portugal Posts: 24	Thanks Perrone for your valuable information. Everything is much more clear now.