Video Internet Compression

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

you can confirm it for yourself by downloading the test clips at my website... unless something has changed recently, you will not be able to play back that nero h.264 clip with your qt player.

I just downloaded the codec test .zip file from your site. I tried the wheelieAVCnero.mp4, and it opened and played perfectly in QuickTime player 7.1. The QuickTime player is certainly not "crippled," at least anymore.

What version of QuickTime did/do you have installed that wouldn't play your Nero AVC encoded clips? I know that QuickTime 6.5 wouldn't play any H.264 encoded clips. Personally, I can't recall having any problems playing Nero AVC clips in any release of QuickTime 7.x.

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

been there, done that, the change never "sticks" for me, it will sooner or later always re-install itself as a startup task... the only sure way around it is to never use the qt player

That's not the only way. I've disabled the qttask using the Software Explorer tool in the Windows Defender antispyware program. qttask is not checked anymore in the Startup tab in msconfig, and it isn’t listed as a running process in Windows Task Manager.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

... i'm not sure that deleting the file itself will prevent the startup task from being installed into your registry.

It doesn't matter. If the qttask.exe file is gone (or even renamed, which is the method I've used with the realsched.exe RealPlayer startup program), it can't be launched at startup.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i'm still looking for a solution to the multiple windows opening in the qt player, if you have a fix please post it, thanks.

I've never seen that problem, so I'm afraid I can't offer a solution. Likely some setting or file simply got corrupted, which can happen to any program. Apple has released a critical update, QuickTime 7.1, so if you haven't already updated now would be a good time, anyway. You may well be able to kill two birds with one stone by installing QuickTime 7.1: Fixing your player problem, and installing the critical update.

[Dan Euritt]

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

Personally, I can't recall having any problems playing Nero AVC clips in any release of QuickTime 7.x.

that's because you never tried it before:
"So obviously, all H.264 codecs play in the H.264-compatible QuickTime Player, right?
Well, no. Apple has implemented the Main Profile of H.264 into its encoders and players, as has Sorenson. However, encoded files produced with more advanced techniques, like the Advanced Simple Profile used in the Ateme Encoder featured in Nero’s line of products, won’t play in the QuickTime Player." - http://www.streamingmedia.com/r/prin...ly.asp?id=9259

i only know about it now because you pointed me towards this latest qt 7.1 update, which was released two weeks ago... since that jan ozer article is dated 3/2006, it means that apple took a year to finally implement decent h.264 support in the qt player.

i do have the qttask disabled on startup with spybot, but every time that you update qt, or even open the player, it re-installs qttask as a startup... and no, i'm not going to delete or re-name the file, because that leaves unlinked trash in the registry file... you probably won't notice it, but it's not good computing practice.

so i uninstalled the old qt 7.0, and re-installed the new 7.1 from scratch... which still didn't fix the issue with opening a new qt window every time that i click on a .dv file... i'd compare that qt player behavior on another computer, but i'm so sick of quicktime right now that i can't stand to work with it anymore :-/

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

that's because you never tried it before

That's circular reasoning on your part. I encoded H.264 Nero video long before Apple released the recent 7.1 update, and I'm sure I played it in the QuickTime player. Never had any problems. Why it worked for me and not for you is a mystery that probably won't ever be solved.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

"So obviously, all H.264 codecs play in the H.264-compatible QuickTime Player, right?
Well, no. Apple has implemented the Main Profile of H.264 into its encoders and players, as has Sorenson. However, encoded files produced with more advanced techniques, like the Advanced Simple Profile used in the Ateme Encoder featured in Nero’s line of products, won’t play in the QuickTime Player." - http://www.streamingmedia.com/r/prin...ly.asp?id=9259

Like I said above, I've never had a problem playing Nero H.264 videos in QuickTime 7.x. Don't ask me why. I never heard there was supposed to be a problem, so I just went my oblivious merry way playing them.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i only know about it now because you pointed me towards this latest qt 7.1 update, which was released two weeks ago... since that jan ozer article is dated 3/2006, it means that apple took a year to finally implement decent h.264 support in the qt player.

It's not clear; did the 7.1 update resolve the problem you had with QuickTime playing Nero H.264 files? Can you now play Nero H.264 encoded .mp4 files in QuickTime?

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i do have the qttask disabled on startup with spybot, but every time that you update qt, or even open the player, it re-installs qttask as a startup...

I've disabled the qttask startup program with Windows Defender. I just opened and closed QuickTime and check msconfig, and qttask was not re-installed.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

and no, i'm not going to delete or re-name the file, because that leaves unlinked trash in the registry file... you probably won't notice it, but it's not good computing practice.

Maybe not, but if it works with no discernable impact on your computer health, I don't see that it should be a problem. But I have a good alternative in Windows Defender, anyway.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

so i uninstalled the old qt 7.0, and re-installed the new 7.1 from scratch... which still didn't fix the issue with opening a new qt window every time that i click on a .dv file... i'd compare that qt player behavior on another computer, but i'm so sick of quicktime right now that i can't stand to work with it anymore :-/

Ever try VLC media player?

[Dan Euritt]

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

Like I said above, I've never had a problem playing Nero H.264 videos in QuickTime 7.x.

umm, no... you couldn't have been playing nero h.264 in qt 7.0, because as i just proved, it wasn't possible with the standard qt 7.0 player configuration.

go read your qt 7.1 update summary, notice the part referencing improved h.264 support?

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

But I have a good alternative in Windows Defender, anyway.

so now everyone has to install windows defender to correct the unruly behavior of the qt player? i think not... just don't put up web video that requires the qt player, and you'll be doing your viewers a big favor.

i would suggest that you do some research on the qt player, over at the mpeg4 doom9 forum... see how much love you can find for it over there :-) http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=17

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

umm, no... you couldn't have been playing nero h.264 in qt 7.0, because as i just proved, it wasn't possible with the standard qt 7.0 player configuration.

You haven't proved anything to me, as I'm pretty sure I did it. Almost all the Windows installations I take care of have been updated to QuickTime 7.1, so I can't directly test it at this time. But I'll probably update my video editing install soon, which still has QuickTime 6.5. I've got a QuickTime 7.0 installer still on my hard drive, so I could try it. We should then know what the truth of the matter is.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

go read your qt 7.1 update summary, notice the part referencing improved h.264 support?

There's no update summary notice with my QuickTime 7.1 install. The Readme file simply says that "QuickTime 7.1 delivers numerous important bug fixes and addresses critical security issues." However, I found this page on the Apple site which says regarding H.264 that the 7.1 update delivers "H.264 performance improvements." Nothing in either document about improved H.264 support, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

so now everyone has to install windows defender to correct the unruly behavior of the qt player? i think not...

It was just a suggestion. You're free to take it or leave it. Windows Defender offers more benefits that just startup managment.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

just don't put up web video that requires the qt player, and you'll be doing your viewers a big favor.

Less choice is doing my visitors a big favor, especially since QuickTime is one of the most popular media players, next to Windows Media player? And what if they're on a Mac? I fail to see the logic in your statement.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i would suggest that you do some research on the qt player, over at the mpeg4 doom9 forum... see how much love you can find for it over there :-) http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=17

I don't doubt there are people who hate the QuickTime player with a passion, just as there are people who feel the same way about the RealOne player. I just don't happen to belong to either camp. I’m not going to let their passion influence my choice of delivery formats for my viewers.

-Christopher

[Jarrod Whaley]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

as i have already pointed out, the ipod video format specifically requires itunes to access the files, and it uses a crippled subset of h.264, it is not even full-on h.264, all of which makes it specific to the ipod... claiming that ipod video "can be played back with all kinds of players" is false information.

There is no such thing as "ipod video format."

My vodcast uses h.264 files that are ipod-compatible. I can both subscribe to the feed and watch the files with fireant and Winamp. Both are free downloads.

In addition, I can't understand why you keep saying you need itunes to download a h.264-encoded file. Is this particular encoding scheme somehow incompatible with http, ftp, or any other common file transfer protocol?

No.

[Stephen L. Noe]

All the iPod stuff I make is mp4...

h264 doesn't even enter the picture.

[Jarrod Whaley]

h264 is mpeg-4.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

h264 is mpeg-4.

Not quite, H.264 is not MP4. MP4 is a compression method, in my case it uses DivX.

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Not quite, H.264 is not MP4. MP4 is a compression method, in my case it uses DivX.

MP4 is a container format that can hold video and audio streams encoded with any number of different codecs, just like the QuickTime .mov container format.

[Jarrod Whaley]

Right. I didn't realize you meant the file extension mp4. I thought you meant mpeg-4.

[Dan Euritt]

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

There is no such thing as "ipod video format."

no? then why can't i open up a podcast link with quicktime? why am i forced to download and install special software just to see it?

you need to understand that the only reason for the existance of itunes is to sell apple products, PERIOD.

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

No.

that's a dead link... were you trying to make a point?

[Dan Euritt]

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

You haven't proved anything to me, as I'm pretty sure I did it... We should then know what the truth of the matter is.

let me get this straight... you are "pretty sure", which means that you really don't know, and you clearly don't believe what jan ozer wrote? perhaps you think that both of us are lying to you about it?

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

Less choice is doing my visitors a big favor, especially since QuickTime is one of the most popular media players, next to Windows Media player? And what if they're on a Mac? I fail to see the logic in your statement..

not hardly... the popularity of media players is flash video and windows media at the top, with quicktime way down the line somewhere.

macs only make up about 3% of the computers on the internet, so why in the world would you think that macs are a factor in what player format you should put on the 'net?

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

let me get this straight... you are "pretty sure", which means that you really don't know

No, I said pretty sure, which means I'm pretty sure, not that I don't know. Please don’t twist my words.

Just have a little patience for me to update my editing install to QuickTime 7.0, and I'll be able to test it in the here and now to your satisfaction (that is, if you're willing at all to accept evidence to the contrary of your current position).

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

and you clearly don't believe what jan ozer wrote? perhaps you think that both of us are lying to you about it?

I'm not interested in calling anyone a liar. It's just that my experience doesn't match up to yours. As for Jan Ozer, I don't recall the article saying he tried playing Nero H.264 video in QuickTime 7 himself. It was more like he was passing on information he got from an unnamed source.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

not hardly... the popularity of media players is flash video and windows media at the top, with quicktime way down the line somewhere.

Not exactly. According to this survey, Flash is at 97.7% penetration, QuickTime is 67.9%, and Windows Media is somewhere in the middle at 85% (12.7% seperates it from Flash, and 17.1% from QuickTime).

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

macs only make up about 3% of the computers on the internet, so why in the world would you think that macs are a factor in what player format you should put on the 'net?

The Windows Media Player on the Mac OS has a historically spotty record in playing Windows Media content reliably. Why shouldn't I offer a choice that plays well on the Mac platform, and that 65% percent of the rest of computers on the Internet can play? What would you have me do instead? Offer RealMedia?

I think I know your answer to that question.

-Christopher