Video Internet Compression

Joyce Mahoney · April 23rd, 2006, 07:46 PM

My window size is 640 X 360 which gives me a 16 X 9 result.

Jonathan Ames · April 23rd, 2006, 07:50 PM

That's where I am too 640 X 360. BTW, where are you. I saw you today at the Jim Cameron deal but you disappeared.

Joyce Mahoney · April 23rd, 2006, 08:12 PM

SUT and guys, thanks for your help on the compression deal. Any other suggestions would be really great because 3 min videos shouldn't be 80+ MB or am i wrong???

Tim Dashwood · April 23rd, 2006, 08:21 PM

Hi Joyce & Jonathan,

As per the dvinfo policy and code of conduct, I deleted your off-topic posts. (classified at meta-discussion.)
It isn't a good idea to let the millions of people on the internet know where you are staying while in Vegas. In the future please use private email for private discussions.

thanks,
Tim

P.S.: I've moved this to "DVD and Web Video Delivery" so you can get more advice.

Tim Dashwood · April 23rd, 2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyce Mahoney

It seems like I've tried everything. I'll go into Premiere, select Video Settings, reduce the quality to 50%, set fps to 15 and codec to H.264 and I'm coming up with 100MB+ files for 3 minute .mov. Something has to be amis!

Have you set Quicktime to "Pro?" When you go into the quicktime options you can punch in exactly how many kbps you would like to target. This allows you to control your encode.

If you would like your 3 minute video to come in at around 20MB, then use a bitrate of 1000kb/s. This is irregardless of codec used.

Joyce Mahoney · April 23rd, 2006, 08:37 PM

Thank you Tim. I hadn't thought of that and you're right. Anyway, where in QT would I set the bit rate. And as long as I have you, you have nio idea how much I appreciate all the help people like you, Paolo, Stephen, Jonathan and the other really smart people here give me and others.

Jonathan Ames · April 23rd, 2006, 08:42 PM

Tim-
From me as well. As I meet different people here, they become like family and I talk to them like they are but you're right, there are millions who aren't. Good call and thanks. Will we see you at the party here on Monday?

Paolo Ciccone · April 23rd, 2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyce Mahoney

It seems like I've tried everything. I'll go into Premiere, select Video Settings, reduce the quality to 50%, set fps to 15 and codec to H.264 and I'm coming up with 100MB+ files for 3 minute .mov. Something has to be amis!

Joyce something is not right. Here is a 15-minute video sized at 640x360, 24fps and it's about 80MB: http://www.cruisercast.com

When you say 50% quality, do you mean half resolution? Quality and size are different settings. When you prepare for an export you should see a QT dialog box similar to this: http://www.paolociccone.com/images/QT_H264.jpg

I use 24 fps with 1 keyframe every 96 frames. Quality, see the slider below the frame information, at just above Medium. If you press Cmd, on a PC I believe it's Alt, and you have the mouse over the Quality Slider, you should see also the setting for "Temporal" quality. I set that to medium as well. You mght want to try playing with that.
I set "Encoding" to "Best Quality" but if you are in a hurry try "Faster encode".
With these settings you should get something around 15-18MB for 3 minutes of video.

Joyce Mahoney · April 23rd, 2006, 09:05 PM

I don't see anything like that. I'm in Premiere Pro 2.0 with the timeline up. I click on File, Export, Movie and Settings. I select Quicktime from the dropdown File Type menu then click on Video in the menu to get video-specific settings at which point I select Sorensen 3 from Compressors, enter 640 X 360 for frame size and reduce the Quality to 50%. I then limit the Data Rate tio 1000 kB/sec and hit OK which takes me back to the Export Movie dialogue box where I Name it and Save it. Again, I'm new to all of this end of the business and the guys around here who usually help me understand things are TV veterans and not Internet gurus so you're my only hope so I really appreciate your help.

Paolo Ciccone · April 23rd, 2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyce Mahoney

I don't see anything like that. I'm in Premiere Pro 2.0 with the timeline up. I click on File, Export, Movie and Settings. I select Quicktime from the dropdown File Type menu then click on Video in the menu to get video-specific settings at which point I select Sorensen 3 from Compressors, enter 640 X 360 for frame size and reduce the Quality to 50%. I then limit the Data Rate tio 1000 kB/sec and hit OK which takes me back to the Export Movie dialogue box where I Name it and Save it. Again, I'm new to all of this end of the business and the guys around here who usually help me understand things are TV veterans and not Internet gurus so you're my only hope so I really appreciate your help.

You're very welcome :)

Sorenson is not H.264. That's a completely different codec. A good one, but different. I have no experience with Premiere but AfterEffects and other apps allow you to set the options for each codec. Maybe somebody familiar with Premiere can help with this issue. Do you see H.264 at all in the list of QT codecs available?

Joyce Mahoney · April 23rd, 2006, 09:33 PM

Yes but when I select H.264, it doesn't allow me to controll bit rate, only quality, frame rate and frame size. I can reduce the Quality to 50% but it still results in humongus file sizes like over 100Mb

Stephen L. Noe · April 23rd, 2006, 09:36 PM

I'm not aware of ANY application that will encode H.264 properly except QTPro7 (on the PC side). That is the problem with the codec is that it is completely proprietary to QTPro.

For the Sorenson scenario you listed try limiting the bitrate to 200 instead of 1000. It will exponentially reduce your filesize. Also alot of web video's are 424X240 (for 16x9 scenarios). Had you considered using 424x240 to save file size as well?

good luck..

Joyce Mahoney · April 23rd, 2006, 09:50 PM

Well, I reduced to 424 X 240, limited to 200 bit rate and sorensen 3 at 50% quality and 15 fps which resulted in a final file size of 88Mb. I just don't get it but thanks guys for trying.

Paolo Ciccone · April 23rd, 2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

I'm not aware of ANY application that will encode H.264 properly except QTPro7 (on the PC side). That is the problem with the codec is that it is completely proprietary to QTPro.

Don't mean to contradict you here but proprietary defines a technology that is defined by a company and is exclusively controlled by that company. The Sorenson codec is an example. MS-Word is another. MPEG and H.264 are not proprietary as they are defined by standardization groups that then publish the specs.
Apple has provided a easily accessible, widespread implementation, that's all.
Both HD-DVD and Blue Ray require support for H.264.

Sorenson Squeeze, available for both Mac and Windows, includes an H.264 encoder. Lead Multimedia has a H.264 DirectVideo filter. There are other companies that offer all kind of H.264 products.

Cheers.

Stephen L. Noe · April 23rd, 2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

Don't mean to contradict you here but proprietary defines a technology that is defined by a company and is exclusively controlled by that company. The Sorenson codec is an example. MS-Word is another. MPEG and H.264 are not proprietary as they are defined by standardization groups that then publish the specs.
Apple has provided a easily accessible, widespread implementation, that's all.
Both HD-DVD and Blue Ray require support for H.264.

Sorenson Squeeze, available for both Mac and Windows, includes an H.264 encoder. Lead Multimedia has a H.264 DirectVideo filter. There are other companies that offer all kind of H.264 products.

Cheers.

Very true Paolo.

I can attest to the fact that H.264 is a bear to get out of a PC. I've tried for months to get a good routine for it on Liquid, Media Composer Adrenalin, Premiere Pro and Boris Red. No luck with any of them. The only way I've found to do it is with QTPro7 and it takes a looooong time to encode.

It wouldn't have bothered me so much but T.Dashwood frequently asked me to post video's using the H.264 format and I tried like hell to accomodate but it is a pain on a PC. Mac folk can't seem to open an HD-WMV that was encoded using the WME Pro. Instead DivX seems to work for everybody using the HD profile and the economy in file size per quality is excellent.

April 23rd, 2006, 07:46 PM	#46
Joyce Mahoney Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	My window size is 640 X 360 which gives me a 16 X 9 result.

April 23rd, 2006, 07:50 PM	#47
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	That's where I am too 640 X 360. BTW, where are you. I saw you today at the Jim Cameron deal but you disappeared.

April 23rd, 2006, 08:12 PM	#48
Joyce Mahoney Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	SUT and guys, thanks for your help on the compression deal. Any other suggestions would be really great because 3 min videos shouldn't be 80+ MB or am i wrong???

April 23rd, 2006, 08:21 PM	#49
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Hi Joyce & Jonathan, As per the dvinfo policy and code of conduct, I deleted your off-topic posts. (classified at meta-discussion.) It isn't a good idea to let the millions of people on the internet know where you are staying while in Vegas. In the future please use private email for private discussions. thanks, Tim P.S.: I've moved this to "DVD and Web Video Delivery" so you can get more advice.

April 23rd, 2006, 08:37 PM	#51
Joyce Mahoney Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	Thank you Tim. I hadn't thought of that and you're right. Anyway, where in QT would I set the bit rate. And as long as I have you, you have nio idea how much I appreciate all the help people like you, Paolo, Stephen, Jonathan and the other really smart people here give me and others.

April 23rd, 2006, 08:42 PM	#52
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	Tim- From me as well. As I meet different people here, they become like family and I talk to them like they are but you're right, there are millions who aren't. Good call and thanks. Will we see you at the party here on Monday?

April 23rd, 2006, 09:05 PM	#54
Joyce Mahoney Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	I don't see anything like that. I'm in Premiere Pro 2.0 with the timeline up. I click on File, Export, Movie and Settings. I select Quicktime from the dropdown File Type menu then click on Video in the menu to get video-specific settings at which point I select Sorensen 3 from Compressors, enter 640 X 360 for frame size and reduce the Quality to 50%. I then limit the Data Rate tio 1000 kB/sec and hit OK which takes me back to the Export Movie dialogue box where I Name it and Save it. Again, I'm new to all of this end of the business and the guys around here who usually help me understand things are TV veterans and not Internet gurus so you're my only hope so I really appreciate your help.

April 23rd, 2006, 09:33 PM	#56
Joyce Mahoney Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	Yes but when I select H.264, it doesn't allow me to controll bit rate, only quality, frame rate and frame size. I can reduce the Quality to 50% but it still results in humongus file sizes like over 100Mb

April 23rd, 2006, 09:36 PM	#57
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	I'm not aware of ANY application that will encode H.264 properly except QTPro7 (on the PC side). That is the problem with the codec is that it is completely proprietary to QTPro. For the Sorenson scenario you listed try limiting the bitrate to 200 instead of 1000. It will exponentially reduce your filesize. Also alot of web video's are 424X240 (for 16x9 scenarios). Had you considered using 424x240 to save file size as well? good luck..

April 23rd, 2006, 09:50 PM	#58
Joyce Mahoney Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 42	Well, I reduced to 424 X 240, limited to 200 bit rate and sorensen 3 at 50% quality and 15 fps which resulted in a final file size of 88Mb. I just don't get it but thanks guys for trying.