Youtube HD is JERKY! at DVinfo.net

Chris Rackauckas · April 21st, 2009, 08:34 PM

Self-explanitory.

My settings were 1280x720 using wmv at 6k CBR using Sony Vegas at 29. something fps.

Is anyone else having this problem

Bradley Ouellette · April 21st, 2009, 08:41 PM

Is it just your video or all videos? Sometimes after intense workloads on the computer, u need a restart to bring it back up to par?

Chris Rackauckas · April 21st, 2009, 10:49 PM

Here's a sample. It's from an improv comedy match :).

YouTube - MVHS Comedy Sportz Polkerie

Ken Campbell · April 22nd, 2009, 12:39 AM

Hi Chris, playback is smooth on my computer.

Andy Wilkinson · April 22nd, 2009, 06:51 AM

I've been having issues with YouTube HD playback as well over the last week or two. As you say, very jerky. A 1280x720p video I uploaded a few weeks ago (and which played superbly well on there for a few days afterwards in HD) is now, more often than not jerky on playback (and as a result is currently removed from view).

I've been experimenting with different codecs/bit rates etc. and most of my HD videos on YouTube will not play back very well in HD most of the time (but occassionally play flawlessly!).... so I'm theorising that (at least in my part of the World) they are having some issues or are still experimenting with delivery options/bit rates/server availability etc. The same videos playbeck well on Vimeo and Exposure Room. This is observed by watching these videos on various Mac and PC's in my house - and I'm on a very fast broadband with wireless N so I'm pretty sure the issues are their (YouTube's) end.

I link an example below which sometimes plays well on YouTube HD and othertimes (more often than not, even when well buffered/loaded) plays jerkily, at least for me in my little corner of this Earth. It plays pretty well on Vimeo and Exp Room even though it's very challenging for the Flash Codec in the way it was shot - before I turned professional (I often shoot corporate stuff with one eye on Flash delivery limitations now) but I'd be interested in how it plays for others. Thanks in advance for any comments on this. By the way Chris, your video does indeed play jerkily on my computers in HD.

YouTube - Thurston OO (HD Video - Part 1)

Pity, because when it works, YouTube in HD is WAY better than Vimeo ever was (IMO) as it allows you to embed the YT player in your own webpage and, I think very importantly, the viewer can watch it in HD & Full Screen WITHOUT leaving one's own website - something I don't see with Vimeo and Exposure Room (maybe this is a Plus option for Vimeo - not sure).

I really hope this is a temporary YouTube HD issue and that I've assessed it correctly.

BTW, I think the Mods should move this to the Web Delivery / Flash section

Simon Wyndham · April 22nd, 2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

maybe this is a Plus option for Vimeo

It is a plus option, although you only get 4000 embedded HD views initially. You can buy more and you can restrict the embed to specific URL's.

YouTubes HD is okay, until you have high motion and then it really falls apart.

Chris Rackauckas · April 22nd, 2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Campbell

Hi Chris, playback is smooth on my computer.

I guess youtube HD requires pretty good computers then because my computer isn't bad at all and it can play the HD files perfectly before it uploads them...

Bryan Cantwell · April 30th, 2009, 08:39 PM

It played back fine for me too... What kind of internet connection are you using?

Chris Rackauckas · May 1st, 2009, 07:29 AM

It's a fast connection and I let it buffer beforehand. Was the motion smooth to you?

I think it's just my computer. Just a simple Dell laptop. Probably doesn't have the graphics card to handle it. However, it can play the actual .wmv file perfectly... which is odd...

Thomas Johansson · May 4th, 2009, 06:03 PM

Yeah, I have the same issue. I upload 1280x720 wmv files and the playback is always jerky when I watch my own videos on YT, but almost never when I watch anyone elses... and the wmv file on my computer plays back perfectly.

Your video plays back without any glitches here Chris.

Robert Martens · May 4th, 2009, 06:48 PM

In my Youtube experiments I've found that the HD stuttering is alleviated by forcing a keyframe every so many frames, according to your framerate. Every thirty frames for 29.97 and 30p footage, every twenty-four for 24 and 23.976, and so on. It may be my imagination, but I could swear I see a difference between the long GOPs set as the default in most compression software and these lower numbers.

Max Coyne · June 23rd, 2009, 03:15 AM

Hey Chaps,

Just read through your posts, and the issues that I am getting relate directly to this thread. And this is driving me absolutely bonkers!

Have a butchers at this link:

Some Velvet Morning Gig on the PRS Rooftop on Vimeo

Its a re-edit of a performance of a band that I am working with.

I am working on Studio 1, FCP 5.1 on a PPC mac dual 2.7. I'm exporting through compressor and have been reading the help files posted up on the vimeo site. What's frustrating is that the original edit plays fine. But if I use the original settings for the new edit I still get dodgy results. On the new encode I get jerky result about half way through the file as it plays through.

Original edit available here:

Some Velvet Morning

Robert, respective of your keyframe post what would you suggest?

Has vimeo changed recently?

I'm wondering if I need to convert my DV Pal file into an NTSC or shifting to 30fps? I know it sounds crazy but considering all options right now, I'm wondering if vimeo behave better with an ntsc or 30fps file?

Or finding a real life wizard to perform some form of ritual over my mac, perhaps bless the room considering all the foul language that has been uttered over the last few weeks....
(If there was a budget associated to this I would've shot it in HD, there wasn't so it was shot on mini DV.)

Your thoughts would be most appreciated!!

Regards and have a good day - max x

Robert Martens · June 23rd, 2009, 03:42 AM

You shouldn't need to do anything about changing the framerate; Vimeo used to convert everything uploaded to 24 frames per second, and it did this by simply dropping frames, leading to potential stuttering (particularly noticeable with NTSC footage). They have, however, since updated their system to support 25 frames per second as the maximum framerate, so you're in good shape, and that shouldn't cause a problem.

For the keyframe frequency, I can't say I'm sure it'll work with Vimeo, I've only ever tested it with Youtube. If you'd like to try it anyway, however, you'd just force a keyframe every 25 frames, since you're using PAL material.

I should note that the video you linked plays back without issue for me. I don't see any more jerkiness around the halfway mark than I do elsewhere in the clip. Could you perhaps reference a specific time that exhibits the problem you're experiencing?

Shaun Roemich · June 23rd, 2009, 08:31 AM

Unless I'm mistaken, YouTube in HD forces frame rate to 24 which has THAT look that some see as cinematic and others see as "jerky".

On my iMac 2.16GHz Intel on a fast connection it LOOKS like 24P to me and the action looks somewhat jerky. Not bad, just not "real".

EDIT: Just read Robert's comment on 25fps. Doesn't change the fact that 25 is still less than 29.97 therefore the motion characteristics WILL change.

EDIT AGAIN: JUST REREAD Robert's comment and saw that he is referring to Vimeo. Still looks a bit jerky to me compared to DVD or TV but fine for web video.

Robert Martens · June 23rd, 2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

EDIT: Just read Robert's comment on 25fps. Doesn't change the fact that 25 is still less than 29.97 therefore the motion characteristics WILL change.

If you're dealing with NTSC; my understanding is that Max's footage is PAL, and has been deinterlaced, so it's 25 frames per second, and won't be changed upon recompression by Vimeo.

April 21st, 2009, 08:34 PM	#1
Chris Rackauckas Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Posts: 113	Youtube HD is JERKY! Self-explanitory. My settings were 1280x720 using wmv at 6k CBR using Sony Vegas at 29. something fps. Is anyone else having this problem

April 21st, 2009, 08:41 PM	#2
Bradley Ouellette Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada Posts: 78	Is it just your video or all videos? Sometimes after intense workloads on the computer, u need a restart to bring it back up to par? __________________ University of Windsor student. Trying to find funds for gear...

April 22nd, 2009, 06:51 AM	#5
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Jerky YouTube HD Playback I've been having issues with YouTube HD playback as well over the last week or two. As you say, very jerky. A 1280x720p video I uploaded a few weeks ago (and which played superbly well on there for a few days afterwards in HD) is now, more often than not jerky on playback (and as a result is currently removed from view). I've been experimenting with different codecs/bit rates etc. and most of my HD videos on YouTube will not play back very well in HD most of the time (but occassionally play flawlessly!).... so I'm theorising that (at least in my part of the World) they are having some issues or are still experimenting with delivery options/bit rates/server availability etc. The same videos playbeck well on Vimeo and Exposure Room. This is observed by watching these videos on various Mac and PC's in my house - and I'm on a very fast broadband with wireless N so I'm pretty sure the issues are their (YouTube's) end. I link an example below which sometimes plays well on YouTube HD and othertimes (more often than not, even when well buffered/loaded) plays jerkily, at least for me in my little corner of this Earth. It plays pretty well on Vimeo and Exp Room even though it's very challenging for the Flash Codec in the way it was shot - before I turned professional (I often shoot corporate stuff with one eye on Flash delivery limitations now) but I'd be interested in how it plays for others. Thanks in advance for any comments on this. By the way Chris, your video does indeed play jerkily on my computers in HD. YouTube - Thurston OO (HD Video - Part 1) Pity, because when it works, YouTube in HD is WAY better than Vimeo ever was (IMO) as it allows you to embed the YT player in your own webpage and, I think very importantly, the viewer can watch it in HD & Full Screen WITHOUT leaving one's own website - something I don't see with Vimeo and Exposure Room (maybe this is a Plus option for Vimeo - not sure). I really hope this is a temporary YouTube HD issue and that I've assessed it correctly. BTW, I think the Mods should move this to the Web Delivery / Flash section __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

June 23rd, 2009, 03:15 AM	#12
Max Coyne New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 18	I'm getting this problem in vimeo Hey Chaps, Just read through your posts, and the issues that I am getting relate directly to this thread. And this is driving me absolutely bonkers! Have a butchers at this link: Some Velvet Morning Gig on the PRS Rooftop on Vimeo Its a re-edit of a performance of a band that I am working with. I am working on Studio 1, FCP 5.1 on a PPC mac dual 2.7. I'm exporting through compressor and have been reading the help files posted up on the vimeo site. What's frustrating is that the original edit plays fine. But if I use the original settings for the new edit I still get dodgy results. On the new encode I get jerky result about half way through the file as it plays through. Original edit available here: Some Velvet Morning Robert, respective of your keyframe post what would you suggest? Has vimeo changed recently? I'm wondering if I need to convert my DV Pal file into an NTSC or shifting to 30fps? I know it sounds crazy but considering all options right now, I'm wondering if vimeo behave better with an ntsc or 30fps file? Or finding a real life wizard to perform some form of ritual over my mac, perhaps bless the room considering all the foul language that has been uttered over the last few weeks.... (If there was a budget associated to this I would've shot it in HD, there wasn't so it was shot on mini DV.) Your thoughts would be most appreciated!! Regards and have a good day - max x

June 23rd, 2009, 08:31 AM	#14
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Unless I'm mistaken, YouTube in HD forces frame rate to 24 which has THAT look that some see as cinematic and others see as "jerky". On my iMac 2.16GHz Intel on a fast connection it LOOKS like 24P to me and the action looks somewhat jerky. Not bad, just not "real". EDIT: Just read Robert's comment on 25fps. Doesn't change the fact that 25 is still less than 29.97 therefore the motion characteristics WILL change. EDIT AGAIN: JUST REREAD Robert's comment and saw that he is referring to Vimeo. Still looks a bit jerky to me compared to DVD or TV but fine for web video. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

April 21st, 2009, 10:49 PM	#3
Chris Rackauckas Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Posts: 113	Here's a sample. It's from an improv comedy match :). YouTube - MVHS Comedy Sportz Polkerie

April 22nd, 2009, 12:39 AM	#4
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	Hi Chris, playback is smooth on my computer.

April 30th, 2009, 08:39 PM	#8
Bryan Cantwell Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Terre Haute, IN Posts: 277	It played back fine for me too... What kind of internet connection are you using?

May 1st, 2009, 07:29 AM	#9
Chris Rackauckas Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Posts: 113	It's a fast connection and I let it buffer beforehand. Was the motion smooth to you? I think it's just my computer. Just a simple Dell laptop. Probably doesn't have the graphics card to handle it. However, it can play the actual .wmv file perfectly... which is odd...

May 4th, 2009, 06:03 PM	#10
Thomas Johansson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Skovde, Sweden Posts: 6	Yeah, I have the same issue. I upload 1280x720 wmv files and the playback is always jerky when I watch my own videos on YT, but almost never when I watch anyone elses... and the wmv file on my computer plays back perfectly. Your video plays back without any glitches here Chris.

May 4th, 2009, 06:48 PM	#11
Robert Martens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 820	In my Youtube experiments I've found that the HD stuttering is alleviated by forcing a keyframe every so many frames, according to your framerate. Every thirty frames for 29.97 and 30p footage, every twenty-four for 24 and 23.976, and so on. It may be my imagination, but I could swear I see a difference between the long GOPs set as the default in most compression software and these lower numbers.

June 23rd, 2009, 03:42 AM	#13
Robert Martens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Miller Place, NY Posts: 820	You shouldn't need to do anything about changing the framerate; Vimeo used to convert everything uploaded to 24 frames per second, and it did this by simply dropping frames, leading to potential stuttering (particularly noticeable with NTSC footage). They have, however, since updated their system to support 25 frames per second as the maximum framerate, so you're in good shape, and that shouldn't cause a problem. For the keyframe frequency, I can't say I'm sure it'll work with Vimeo, I've only ever tested it with Youtube. If you'd like to try it anyway, however, you'd just force a keyframe every 25 frames, since you're using PAL material. I should note that the video you linked plays back without issue for me. I don't see any more jerkiness around the halfway mark than I do elsewhere in the clip. Could you perhaps reference a specific time that exhibits the problem you're experiencing?