Strange Lines Problem at DVinfo.net

Ken Campbell · December 23rd, 2008, 12:25 AM

see video here

The original is perfect, when I view it from the camera on a TV it is perfect, the original M2T is perfect viewed with VLC, the converted MP4 (which you can download) is perfect, but when I see it online I get these "cuts" or misaligned lines that are evident in the logo and in the amp's knobs. Also the video jumps a bit instead of a smooth track. This only occurs in the tracking shots, the static shots or even in zooms, are fine. Funny thing is, they are not always in the same place at the same time, which makes me think its a computer video problem.

Does anyone else see this problem? And if so, an someone explain to me why this annoying thing happens?

Ken Campbell · December 23rd, 2008, 02:11 AM

By the way, I shot this clip with a Sony V1e in progressive mode HDV with a shutter speed of 50. I have done some test with interlaced HDV and it still displays the problem.

Warren Kawamoto · December 23rd, 2008, 06:19 PM

I tried playing back your video about 3 times,and I don't see any cuts or anything wrong with the logo or knobs. Looks fine to me....

Ken Campbell · December 24th, 2008, 01:32 AM

Thanks Warren! I'm glad to know its not a universal problem since you don't notice it. I am thinking it may have to do with computer performance. What's your specs? I asked a few friends to check it out and they see the artifacts, and they are running systems and laptops inferior to my desktop. I have a Core 2 Duo E6600 with a G-Force 7600 Silent video card and 2Gb ram. I also see it in my new Toshiba Laptop and in my old IBM laptop. I just hope the rest of the world sees it the way you are!

The funny thing is that I only notice it when the video is displayed inside a browser or in the editing aps. I use After Effects CS3 and Vegas Pro 8. If I watch the original video file or a rendered video in VLC it is fine, no stuttering, no disjointed lines.

Does anyone else notice any strange artifacts in the video?

Thanks again to all for your help!

David Carter · December 24th, 2008, 03:13 AM

Just thought I'd say it looks good here too, slight stutter on your track/ pan along they mixer but thats probably a download issue at this end. Looks and sounds good!

Ken Campbell · December 24th, 2008, 04:58 AM

Thanks David, Istill can't figure out why I and a few others see this problem.

Hey, if you want, I put that video up on YouTube in HD yesterday. Here's the link YouTube - Giacomo Castellano with the Masotti X100M Modern 100W in HD Video

Thanks again!

David Carter · December 24th, 2008, 06:10 AM

It's excellent, really excellent Ken. Loved the little pushes in on frame too, nicely nicely done, gave you a 5 star rating! Keep it up!

Tripp Woelfel · December 24th, 2008, 06:46 AM

That clip looks really clean to me. No problems on this end. Very nice, by the way.

Jeff Donald · December 24th, 2008, 06:57 AM

Looks fine, even on some old G4 Macs. Have you viewed it on different monitor?

Ken Campbell · December 24th, 2008, 07:33 AM

Guys, thanks so much for the input and help! Just so we're all sync'ed, we are all looking at the short video I put on Vimeo here strange lines problem on Vimeo right? I have 4 computers here that all show me these "cuts" in which for a brief second the video seems to split in small areas, and then quicly turns to normal again. It does this randomly in the clip, and not always in the same spot at the same time. Once I showed this to the client and to the musician they noticed it too. In fact, I took that tracking shot out of the final video and inserted the zoom shot instead.

And to further annoy me, the original MP4 when viewed in VLC does not do this, its only when I see it in Firefox or IE. And it always does this when I am editing the video in Vegas, but on the rendered files viewed locally in VLC its perfect. So I guess my refined question is why this only happens in Vegas and in the browsers?

By the way, I really appreciate the comments and support. I am really new to video shooting and editing and I need all the help and support I can get!

Happy Holidays to all!

Ken Campbell · December 29th, 2008, 11:14 AM

OK, I have been looking into this and I think what I am seeing is called "screen tearing" as described here Adventures in High Fidelity: Screen Tearing Explained Unfortunately I tried turning on V-Sync and the usual fixes but nothing really helped. Anyone ever overcome this problem? At first I thought it may be my videocamera but I rendered out a photo being panned in AE and it still persists for me, here's a link to that video Photo panned from AE on Vimeo

I am now afraid to do tracking shots for my clients! Is this something that no one notices until someone makes it noticed? (If so, sorry!) Or maybe its not so objectionable to those who watch the videos. As a novice videomaker, it really bothers me now as tracking shots really make for great video!

And an ongoing thanks to all who have helped and will help me and the best wishes for a great and prosperous 2009!!!!!!!

Shaun Roemich · December 29th, 2008, 04:22 PM

Ken, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's there and unbearable to me. Do I see this routinely on the web? Sure. Do I hate it? Yup.

Ken Campbell · December 30th, 2008, 01:06 AM

Oh well, I guess I can't have perfection in an imperfect world. After a week of looking into this problem, I have resigned to the fact that web video delivery is still in its infancy and I, and my clients, must tolerate the occasional imperfection. My current resolution to this screen tear problem is this:

-No fast pans with shots having strong vertical lines in them
-No pans in high contract shots (like the ones I used as examples)
-Make the content so damned compelling that no one would notice the occasional tear

Thanks again to all!

December 23rd, 2008, 12:25 AM	#1
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	Strange Lines Problem see video here The original is perfect, when I view it from the camera on a TV it is perfect, the original M2T is perfect viewed with VLC, the converted MP4 (which you can download) is perfect, but when I see it online I get these "cuts" or misaligned lines that are evident in the logo and in the amp's knobs. Also the video jumps a bit instead of a smooth track. This only occurs in the tracking shots, the static shots or even in zooms, are fine. Funny thing is, they are not always in the same place at the same time, which makes me think its a computer video problem. Does anyone else see this problem? And if so, an someone explain to me why this annoying thing happens?

December 24th, 2008, 03:13 AM	#5
David Carter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Posts: 170	no fault Just thought I'd say it looks good here too, slight stutter on your track/ pan along they mixer but thats probably a download issue at this end. Looks and sounds good!

December 24th, 2008, 06:57 AM	#9
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Looks fine, even on some old G4 Macs. Have you viewed it on different monitor? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 29th, 2008, 04:22 PM	#12
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Ken, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it's there and unbearable to me. Do I see this routinely on the web? Sure. Do I hate it? Yup. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

December 23rd, 2008, 02:11 AM	#2
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	By the way, I shot this clip with a Sony V1e in progressive mode HDV with a shutter speed of 50. I have done some test with interlaced HDV and it still displays the problem.

December 23rd, 2008, 06:19 PM	#3
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	I tried playing back your video about 3 times,and I don't see any cuts or anything wrong with the logo or knobs. Looks fine to me....

December 24th, 2008, 01:32 AM	#4
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	Thanks Warren! I'm glad to know its not a universal problem since you don't notice it. I am thinking it may have to do with computer performance. What's your specs? I asked a few friends to check it out and they see the artifacts, and they are running systems and laptops inferior to my desktop. I have a Core 2 Duo E6600 with a G-Force 7600 Silent video card and 2Gb ram. I also see it in my new Toshiba Laptop and in my old IBM laptop. I just hope the rest of the world sees it the way you are! The funny thing is that I only notice it when the video is displayed inside a browser or in the editing aps. I use After Effects CS3 and Vegas Pro 8. If I watch the original video file or a rendered video in VLC it is fine, no stuttering, no disjointed lines. Does anyone else notice any strange artifacts in the video? Thanks again to all for your help!

December 24th, 2008, 04:58 AM	#6
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	Thanks David, Istill can't figure out why I and a few others see this problem. Hey, if you want, I put that video up on YouTube in HD yesterday. Here's the link YouTube - Giacomo Castellano with the Masotti X100M Modern 100W in HD Video Thanks again!

December 24th, 2008, 06:10 AM	#7
David Carter Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Posts: 170	It's excellent, really excellent Ken. Loved the little pushes in on frame too, nicely nicely done, gave you a 5 star rating! Keep it up!

December 24th, 2008, 06:46 AM	#8
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	That clip looks really clean to me. No problems on this end. Very nice, by the way.

December 24th, 2008, 07:33 AM	#10
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	Guys, thanks so much for the input and help! Just so we're all sync'ed, we are all looking at the short video I put on Vimeo here strange lines problem on Vimeo right? I have 4 computers here that all show me these "cuts" in which for a brief second the video seems to split in small areas, and then quicly turns to normal again. It does this randomly in the clip, and not always in the same spot at the same time. Once I showed this to the client and to the musician they noticed it too. In fact, I took that tracking shot out of the final video and inserted the zoom shot instead. And to further annoy me, the original MP4 when viewed in VLC does not do this, its only when I see it in Firefox or IE. And it always does this when I am editing the video in Vegas, but on the rendered files viewed locally in VLC its perfect. So I guess my refined question is why this only happens in Vegas and in the browsers? By the way, I really appreciate the comments and support. I am really new to video shooting and editing and I need all the help and support I can get! Happy Holidays to all!

December 29th, 2008, 11:14 AM	#11
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	OK, I have been looking into this and I think what I am seeing is called "screen tearing" as described here Adventures in High Fidelity: Screen Tearing Explained Unfortunately I tried turning on V-Sync and the usual fixes but nothing really helped. Anyone ever overcome this problem? At first I thought it may be my videocamera but I rendered out a photo being panned in AE and it still persists for me, here's a link to that video Photo panned from AE on Vimeo I am now afraid to do tracking shots for my clients! Is this something that no one notices until someone makes it noticed? (If so, sorry!) Or maybe its not so objectionable to those who watch the videos. As a novice videomaker, it really bothers me now as tracking shots really make for great video! And an ongoing thanks to all who have helped and will help me and the best wishes for a great and prosperous 2009!!!!!!!

December 30th, 2008, 01:06 AM	#13
Ken Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 140	Oh well, I guess I can't have perfection in an imperfect world. After a week of looking into this problem, I have resigned to the fact that web video delivery is still in its infancy and I, and my clients, must tolerate the occasional imperfection. My current resolution to this screen tear problem is this: -No fast pans with shots having strong vertical lines in them -No pans in high contract shots (like the ones I used as examples) -Make the content so damned compelling that no one would notice the occasional tear Thanks again to all!