how to make non downloadable streaming video at DVinfo.net

Roger Beck · November 10th, 2007, 02:42 PM

So how, exactly, do i upload streaming, non-downloadable video from a PC to my http server? I do it a lot with still images, there are programs that do it quite easily and the user just punches in their size/background/music options, etc and it creates an html page with an .swf file that i upload to my server. i am looking for the same thing for a video file.

roger

Daniel Ross · November 10th, 2007, 03:25 PM

I do web design as well. On the forum I visit regularly, this question pops up all the time, "how can I stop people from stealing my images?"

The answer is that you cannot.

Once displayed on a user's computer, the data is in fact transferred, no matter how much that may annoy you.

Taking a screen capture always works [with one exception, that isn't worth mentioning, because there are workarounds], and this will defeat any security, such as those annoying no right-click scripts, etc., that pretend to stop people.

Video IS a little more complex than images, though, so it is possible to make it harder to find the actual file.

However, you can still, if the system is strong enough, take a video screen capture, and that will defeat it right there.

The usual method for this is flash. Everyone seems to have it, and even if you do download the flash file, it's difficult to decompile and understand it. For someone who knows what they are doing, though, it's possible, still.

The most effective protection I have seen was on msnbc.com, which required a PC, running Internet Explorer, and using special embedded methods to quite effectively stop anything.
The point there is that if you do limit what can view the file, then you also limit how many ways there are to steal it, to some extent.

I don't spend my time trying to hide video or trying to steal it, for that matter, so I'm not sure what the most effective way is, but I hope this analysis helps.

It's certainly possible to make it difficult for the average user, but it will also annoy your visitors.

The easiest and generally effective way would be to use flash and just embed the video in that, but remotely, so saving the flash file would just link to it. Also, then, make it only work it if was embedded on the page, using some sort of server side programming to only serve the video file to the flash applet if the request matches.

In the end, no matter what you do, there will be someone who can get around your protection, simple as that, especially if they want the file enough.

Roger Beck · November 10th, 2007, 04:00 PM

Actually I wasn't worried about stealing so much as I just want someone to view the file once or twice and no more, don't want them to be able to download it. I know this is done with Flash. Before I buy and learn a new program I want to know if there are any simpler ways to do this. For still images there is a program called ShowIt Web, here is an example of a streaming shockwave flash streaming video http://www.rogerbeck.com/webshow/and...lph/index.html . I want to do the same thing, with all the text and all of the other options, only with video, and have it in a "choose your options for dummies" program and output an html.

Jim Andrada · November 10th, 2007, 05:31 PM

I think if it's playing on your computer screen, something like Camtasia can capture it regardless of how it came to be playing on your screen.

Giroud Francois · November 11th, 2007, 05:48 AM

you can implement DRMm on your server (while it is not simple).
DRM acts by providing you a "ticket" while playing. if you save the video and try to play it later (or elsewhere) the ticket is requested again.
in case the server is not allowing it (or not reachable) the video does not play.
It is a nice feature to limit how many or whom is playing the video.
again this is defeated by simple screen capture.

Roger Beck · November 11th, 2007, 12:10 PM

OK, thanks for the info, but lets say I simply want to put up some streaming video and that I am not worried about downloading. Streaming video is not normally downloadable and that is all iI want to do. Its the streaming video part that is important, not the "non-downloadable" part.

Russ Holland · November 11th, 2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giroud Francois

you can implement DRMm on your server (while it is not simple).
DRM acts by providing you a "ticket" while playing. if you save the video and try to play it later (or elsewhere) the ticket is requested again.
in case the server is not allowing it (or not reachable) the video does not play.
It is a nice feature to limit how many or whom is playing the video.
again this is defeated by simple screen capture.

I asked about this before in another post elsewhere on this forum, apparently its rather expensive. I have to go via the Flash method now, although as already said, if you know what your doing, it is still downloadable for keeps.

Mathieu Ghekiere · November 11th, 2007, 02:32 PM

Maybe an idea is to put a watermark on your video too... if you want to be sure? Okay, people can run away with it, but they can't filter the watermark out...

Craig Parkes · November 11th, 2007, 03:30 PM

I think people are missing the OP's point.

All he wants to do is set load a video to his site which doesn't have a 'save target as' option when you right click the link. An embedded streaming video.

Of course, you CAN steal such files, but it's a little harder than just simply clicking download and will put your average punter off.

I'm not sure about how to set up streaming files in this manner - may need a server side streaming program.

Denis Danatzko · November 17th, 2007, 08:25 AM

to be able to post a 5 min +/- clip with a small footprint but accessible via streaming. So far, I have found and use Coffeecup Video Player. There is a free trial version (21 days), it creates the files you need to load to your site, as well as the html that needs to be added to the page that will start the streaming. It has a few quirks, and isn't perfect, but, for me at the moment, it's quick and satisfactory. Do a google search to find the trial download.

It includes a few options for small or large screen size, for autoplay (which doesn't seem to work right...I always have to click the "Play" button), and a few others. It even allows you to send the created files directly to your site from within the application via ftp (once you set up the login and connection info), and, though I've run into a few quirks doing that, I did get it to work without much pain. It was a quick and relatively easy way to get started in streaming flash, though I strongly doubt you have as much control as if you coded the player from scratch.

Nothing fancy here, (my site is very vanilla), but you can view a sample of what you might end up with here:
http://www.adhocvideo.com/events/stage/index.shtml
Note that the position of the player screen within the browser window is due to html, not the CCup app. Also, it allows for playlists, which I intend to start using soon.
(Just be sure to click the "Play" button on the screen control...and if, by chance it DOES autoplay, please let me know).

Hope this helps.

Addendum:
The Coffeecup app links to and embeds the flash player into your web page. Once you include the correct html in your page, and you move the correct files to your web site host page, there is nothing else to do. No "streaming server" is necesssary.

November 10th, 2007, 02:42 PM	#1
Roger Beck Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 31	how to make non downloadable streaming video So how, exactly, do i upload streaming, non-downloadable video from a PC to my http server? I do it a lot with still images, there are programs that do it quite easily and the user just punches in their size/background/music options, etc and it creates an html page with an .swf file that i upload to my server. i am looking for the same thing for a video file. roger Last edited by Roger Beck; November 10th, 2007 at 08:47 PM.

November 11th, 2007, 02:32 PM	#8
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Maybe an idea is to put a watermark on your video too... if you want to be sure? Okay, people can run away with it, but they can't filter the watermark out... __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

November 17th, 2007, 08:25 AM	#10
Denis Danatzko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NYC Metro area Posts: 579	FWIW, I wanted something similarly simple... to be able to post a 5 min +/- clip with a small footprint but accessible via streaming. So far, I have found and use Coffeecup Video Player. There is a free trial version (21 days), it creates the files you need to load to your site, as well as the html that needs to be added to the page that will start the streaming. It has a few quirks, and isn't perfect, but, for me at the moment, it's quick and satisfactory. Do a google search to find the trial download. It includes a few options for small or large screen size, for autoplay (which doesn't seem to work right...I always have to click the "Play" button), and a few others. It even allows you to send the created files directly to your site from within the application via ftp (once you set up the login and connection info), and, though I've run into a few quirks doing that, I did get it to work without much pain. It was a quick and relatively easy way to get started in streaming flash, though I strongly doubt you have as much control as if you coded the player from scratch. Nothing fancy here, (my site is very vanilla), but you can view a sample of what you might end up with here: http://www.adhocvideo.com/events/stage/index.shtml Note that the position of the player screen within the browser window is due to html, not the CCup app. Also, it allows for playlists, which I intend to start using soon. (Just be sure to click the "Play" button on the screen control...and if, by chance it DOES autoplay, please let me know). Hope this helps. Addendum: The Coffeecup app links to and embeds the flash player into your web page. Once you include the correct html in your page, and you move the correct files to your web site host page, there is nothing else to do. No "streaming server" is necesssary. __________________ Denis ------------ Our actions are based on our own experience and knowledge. Thus, no one is ever totally right, nor totally wrong. We simply act from what we "know" to be true, based on that experience and knowledge. Beyond that, we pose questions to others. Last edited by Denis Danatzko; November 17th, 2007 at 10:59 PM. Reason: Addendum:

November 10th, 2007, 03:25 PM	#2
Daniel Ross Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Marin & Davis, CA, USA Posts: 418	I do web design as well. On the forum I visit regularly, this question pops up all the time, "how can I stop people from stealing my images?" The answer is that you cannot. Once displayed on a user's computer, the data is in fact transferred, no matter how much that may annoy you. Taking a screen capture always works [with one exception, that isn't worth mentioning, because there are workarounds], and this will defeat any security, such as those annoying no right-click scripts, etc., that pretend to stop people. Video IS a little more complex than images, though, so it is possible to make it harder to find the actual file. However, you can still, if the system is strong enough, take a video screen capture, and that will defeat it right there. The usual method for this is flash. Everyone seems to have it, and even if you do download the flash file, it's difficult to decompile and understand it. For someone who knows what they are doing, though, it's possible, still. The most effective protection I have seen was on msnbc.com, which required a PC, running Internet Explorer, and using special embedded methods to quite effectively stop anything. The point there is that if you do limit what can view the file, then you also limit how many ways there are to steal it, to some extent. I don't spend my time trying to hide video or trying to steal it, for that matter, so I'm not sure what the most effective way is, but I hope this analysis helps. It's certainly possible to make it difficult for the average user, but it will also annoy your visitors. The easiest and generally effective way would be to use flash and just embed the video in that, but remotely, so saving the flash file would just link to it. Also, then, make it only work it if was embedded on the page, using some sort of server side programming to only serve the video file to the flash applet if the request matches. In the end, no matter what you do, there will be someone who can get around your protection, simple as that, especially if they want the file enough.

November 10th, 2007, 04:00 PM	#3
Roger Beck Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 31	Actually I wasn't worried about stealing so much as I just want someone to view the file once or twice and no more, don't want them to be able to download it. I know this is done with Flash. Before I buy and learn a new program I want to know if there are any simpler ways to do this. For still images there is a program called ShowIt Web, here is an example of a streaming shockwave flash streaming video http://www.rogerbeck.com/webshow/and...lph/index.html . I want to do the same thing, with all the text and all of the other options, only with video, and have it in a "choose your options for dummies" program and output an html.

November 10th, 2007, 05:31 PM	#4
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	I think if it's playing on your computer screen, something like Camtasia can capture it regardless of how it came to be playing on your screen.

November 11th, 2007, 05:48 AM	#5
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	you can implement DRMm on your server (while it is not simple). DRM acts by providing you a "ticket" while playing. if you save the video and try to play it later (or elsewhere) the ticket is requested again. in case the server is not allowing it (or not reachable) the video does not play. It is a nice feature to limit how many or whom is playing the video. again this is defeated by simple screen capture.

November 11th, 2007, 12:10 PM	#6
Roger Beck Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 31	OK, thanks for the info, but lets say I simply want to put up some streaming video and that I am not worried about downloading. Streaming video is not normally downloadable and that is all iI want to do. Its the streaming video part that is important, not the "non-downloadable" part.

November 11th, 2007, 03:30 PM	#9
Craig Parkes Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 444	I think people are missing the OP's point. All he wants to do is set load a video to his site which doesn't have a 'save target as' option when you right click the link. An embedded streaming video. Of course, you CAN steal such files, but it's a little harder than just simply clicking download and will put your average punter off. I'm not sure about how to set up streaming files in this manner - may need a server side streaming program.