Colour change on quicktime export at DVinfo.net

Paul Joy · July 13th, 2007, 09:39 AM

I wondered if anyone else see's a colour change when exporting to a quicktime file from FCP? I'm not talking about quicktime conversion, just a standard export using a sequences current settings.

In the FCP viewer my clips look nice and contrasty and rich in colour, yet once exported they lose a lot of that and look a bit pale.

Is this common?

Thanks

Paul.

Melvin Torrens · July 13th, 2007, 11:32 AM

I just noticed the exact same thing and posted about it here http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...d=1#post711575
and in the apple forum http://discussions.apple.com/thread....41345&tstart=0

When I exported and played back in quicktime all the colors lost contrast, I suppose it's a different colorspace, but if you open the exported file in FCP everything is as the original.

Paul Joy · July 13th, 2007, 11:48 AM

That's interesting, I'm not sure if its just paranoia but I'm sure my quicktime exports used to be really fast for me too, now they seem to take as long as a quicktime conversion export.

Maybe I just need a rest!

Paul.

Paul Joy · July 16th, 2007, 11:01 PM

I've been looking into this some more and think I'm starting to understand what's happening.

A good explanation is here... http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93794 although it's aimed at shake footage it still explains what's happening.

In a nutshell, FCP assumes you're using the default mac display gamma of 1.8. PC's and TV's use 2.2 so it automatically adjusts the gamma of the video being displayed to simulate how it will look at 2.2.

Although I understand why apple have done this, it's a bit annoying that it doesn't seem to be possible to turn it off. I have my monitor calibrated for 2.2 gamma anyway so I really don't want or need FCP to mess with the display gamma of my footage at all, but it doesn't seem possible to stop it from doing so.

Apples advice to set your monitor gamma to 1.8 so as to accommodate the automatic FCP gamma change - this seems very wrong to me, I'd rather have the option to see my footage displayed as it is in the source than have FCP make incorrect assumptions about my display setup and the destination of my footage.

I'm not entirely sure why apple insists on using a different display gamma to PC's anyway, I guess it's a legacy thing for print design and pantone matching etc. Having worked on PC's a lot in the past though I find the apple gamma to look really washed out. I produce a lot of content for the web and I don't want to be hindered by a system that makes my work look different to how the majority of viewers will see it using PC's and TV's.

Paul.

Paul Joy · July 18th, 2007, 03:55 PM

Bit of a one way conversation this but I'll keep going anyway :)

Another thing I've noticed on my machine is that even though quicktime movs exported from FCP look lighter when played in quicktime than they do in FCP, they don't have this lightening when viewed in a webpage.

This is getting more and more confusing and I'm starting to wonder if my system, has got messed up somehow.

check out this screen grab, it shows a frame in FCP, then the same exported frame in QT player and in a web browser.

http://www.olikai.com/forum_images/qt-compare.jpg

The middle and right images are the exact same file, the middle is viewed locally in qt player, the one on the right played back in a web browser.

I'd be really interested to know if anyone else is seeing this kind of behavior.

Thanks

Paul.

Darin Boville · July 18th, 2007, 07:07 PM

I'm lurking here, hoping you find an answer!

I'm on FCE and am experiencing similar behavior--what looks good in FCE, exported to QT, looks much brighter. But mine still looks brighter on the web.

One thing I've noticed (which matches your description of FCE changing the gamma for display) is that when you open the dialog box to export (either export full quality of export for conversion--I forget which asnd my FCE machine is busy compressing right now) it changes back to the standard gamma--you can see the image in the background, behind the dialog box, go brighter.

I haven't had a chance to test the Digital Cinema Display--is the gamma adjustment made there as well?

I really need a way to prepare video for web--I'm a little confused. Everything seems hard-wired for TV display...

--Darin

www.montarafog.com

July 13th, 2007, 09:39 AM	#1
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Colour change on quicktime export I wondered if anyone else see's a colour change when exporting to a quicktime file from FCP? I'm not talking about quicktime conversion, just a standard export using a sequences current settings. In the FCP viewer my clips look nice and contrasty and rich in colour, yet once exported they lose a lot of that and look a bit pale. Is this common? Thanks Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

July 13th, 2007, 11:48 AM	#3
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	That's interesting, I'm not sure if its just paranoia but I'm sure my quicktime exports used to be really fast for me too, now they seem to take as long as a quicktime conversion export. Maybe I just need a rest! Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk Last edited by Paul Joy; July 13th, 2007 at 12:33 PM.

July 16th, 2007, 11:01 PM	#4
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	I've been looking into this some more and think I'm starting to understand what's happening. A good explanation is here... http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93794 although it's aimed at shake footage it still explains what's happening. In a nutshell, FCP assumes you're using the default mac display gamma of 1.8. PC's and TV's use 2.2 so it automatically adjusts the gamma of the video being displayed to simulate how it will look at 2.2. Although I understand why apple have done this, it's a bit annoying that it doesn't seem to be possible to turn it off. I have my monitor calibrated for 2.2 gamma anyway so I really don't want or need FCP to mess with the display gamma of my footage at all, but it doesn't seem possible to stop it from doing so. Apples advice to set your monitor gamma to 1.8 so as to accommodate the automatic FCP gamma change - this seems very wrong to me, I'd rather have the option to see my footage displayed as it is in the source than have FCP make incorrect assumptions about my display setup and the destination of my footage. I'm not entirely sure why apple insists on using a different display gamma to PC's anyway, I guess it's a legacy thing for print design and pantone matching etc. Having worked on PC's a lot in the past though I find the apple gamma to look really washed out. I produce a lot of content for the web and I don't want to be hindered by a system that makes my work look different to how the majority of viewers will see it using PC's and TV's. Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk Last edited by Paul Joy; July 17th, 2007 at 01:57 AM.

July 18th, 2007, 03:55 PM	#5
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Bit of a one way conversation this but I'll keep going anyway :) Another thing I've noticed on my machine is that even though quicktime movs exported from FCP look lighter when played in quicktime than they do in FCP, they don't have this lightening when viewed in a webpage. This is getting more and more confusing and I'm starting to wonder if my system, has got messed up somehow. check out this screen grab, it shows a frame in FCP, then the same exported frame in QT player and in a web browser. http://www.olikai.com/forum_images/qt-compare.jpg The middle and right images are the exact same file, the middle is viewed locally in qt player, the one on the right played back in a web browser. I'd be really interested to know if anyone else is seeing this kind of behavior. Thanks Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

July 18th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#6
Darin Boville Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montara, California Posts: 127	I'm lurking here, hoping you find an answer! I'm on FCE and am experiencing similar behavior--what looks good in FCE, exported to QT, looks much brighter. But mine still looks brighter on the web. One thing I've noticed (which matches your description of FCE changing the gamma for display) is that when you open the dialog box to export (either export full quality of export for conversion--I forget which asnd my FCE machine is busy compressing right now) it changes back to the standard gamma--you can see the image in the background, behind the dialog box, go brighter. I haven't had a chance to test the Digital Cinema Display--is the gamma adjustment made there as well? I really need a way to prepare video for web--I'm a little confused. Everything seems hard-wired for TV display... --Darin www.montarafog.com __________________ Darin Boville www.darinboville.com

July 13th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#2
Melvin Torrens Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Spain Posts: 46	I just noticed the exact same thing and posted about it here http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...d=1#post711575 and in the apple forum http://discussions.apple.com/thread....41345&tstart=0 When I exported and played back in quicktime all the colors lost contrast, I suppose it's a different colorspace, but if you open the exported file in FCP everything is as the original.