NLE Mac / Final Cut questions from 2002

[Simon Davies]

That's a very interesting point Robert. I now remember reading something in a manual about the virtues of round as opposed to square pixels. I'll check this one out.

Cheers!

[Curtis T. Stoeber]

Wasn't the original question HOW to mixdown audio in FCP? It's under the same menu as RENDER and is titled simply "Mixdown Audio".

*Oops, misread the question*
Just export all of your audio as a stereo 48khz AIFF file. That should do the trick. You can go further by importing that AIFF file, deleting al of the other audio from the timeline, and then placing the new stereo (or mono) AIFF file into the timeline and then exporting your FCP movie.

Anyway, I find FCP excellent for audio use. My projects usually have 24 tracks or more of audio alone. I always mix for Dolby Digital 5.1 channel (making an AC-3 file using DVD Studio Pro). I have made mixes that I feel rival certain real movies. I know how to use effects and when. I also know not to overuse certain things. I'm not Gary Rydstrom or anything, but I feel that I do audio very well using FCP. I don't use FCP to record original audio or apply filters. My audio rarely needs any kind of filters. But as far as editing and crossfades, etc it is brilliant and easy.

[Mark Austin]

<<<--since you like the audio tools in Sonic Foundry stuff so much, how do you feel about the video editing in Vegas Video? Linc Kesler -->>>

I guess I have invested enough time and money in the Mac stuff that switching ships now would probably be counter productive. I do own V V and Sound Forge, so I find myself moving audio between the two platforms (Mac/PC) fairly often. For music that's not that much of a problem really because I'm not editing my music related audio to be used in another program, just for CD output. I use ProTools for the multitrack recording, then tweak the final (post mastering) files in Sound Forge to normalize them, then I'm done one song, one file, burn a CD master done end of story.

If you consider that for sound in FCP you can't always build your complete audio tracks unless you actually build your video tracks first, it then becomes a problem. I have to load FCP get my dialog etc in, export the AIFF into ProTools add music, export to AIFF import into FCP ad nausium, until you have the final project, then export from FCP master the audio in ProTools, export to Sound Forge (on PC) to normalize, then export back to FCP for the final render.. Doesn’t that seem like a long arduous process when it could all be done from within FCP if it had a decent set of audio tools.

<<<--I'm not Gary Rydstrom or anything, but I feel that I do audio very well using FCP. I don't use FCP to record original audio or apply filters. -- Curtis T. Stoeber -->>> I could do audio really well in FCP if all I had to do was crossfades, but that's hardly "doing audio" is it? How do you record and mix those 24 tracks? And how do you sync dialog, Foley, and sound beds to your final picture from outside FCP?

<<<--Just export all of your audio as a stereo 48khz AIFF file. That should do the trick. You can go further by importing that AIFF file, deleting al of the other audio from the timeline, and then placing the new stereo (or mono) AIFF file into the timeline and then exporting your FCP movie. -->>>

This just exemplifies my point, this is a complete waste of time!!! In/Out/In/Out; it's retarded, my point AGAIN, why can't we just do this from within FCP? It's an absolutly awesome pixel pusher but without decent audio tools it's a flawed program. Maybe I'll have to eat Crow when FCP4.0 comes out, but that's one bird I look forward to!

my 2-1/2 cents
Mark

[John Locke]

Has anyone ever used these filters before this new OSX release?

http://www.media100.com/fec.asp

[Jeff Donald]

I wouldn't rush out and buy them until FCP 4 is released. Who knows what might be bundled with it. The $100 savings is good until 2/21/03.

Jeff

[John Locke]

Jeff,

What's the ETA for FCP4?

[Jeff Donald]

It's rumored to be around MacWorld SF. I don't expect it any later than Valentine's Day. I also expect to see new G4's around that same time. I don't expect any big speed increases. They'll need a new processor and the IBM chips won't be ready until fall. Several iApps are due revisions around MacWorld and 10.2.3 should be released before the end of the year. Developers will receive 10.3 (beta) at MW SF or just afterwards. Final version should be ready next summer. So much for the latest rumors

Jeff

[Curtis T. Stoeber]

I've done "ADR" or dialog replacement many, many times. What I do is have the actor wear headphones while watching a tape of the original dialog, or from the timeline in FCP. It then records through mr. microphone to mr. minidisc or other recording device. This is done until the dialog matches, and I have had extremely convincing results. I record using minidisc usually and if I need to adjust audio I do it in any number of sound editing programs for the Mac. I agree that this could be built into FCP. Foley work is quite easy. Crossfades are basically used for music editing which I feel is best done in FCP so I can match it precisely to the timeline.

Mixing the 24 (or more, sometimes less) tracks is just like mixing anything else. Except the Mac does not have a realtime 6 channel audio output card for this (that I know of) and FCP does not support 5.1 channels of audio. So basically tracks A1-A8 are devoted to center channel, A9-12 are devoted to left, etc etc etc. The number of actual tracks depends on the needs of the project. I then would make only tracks A1-A8 active and export a mono 48khz 16-bit AIFF. I'd do this for all channels and make an AC-3 file. I write the project to DVD-RW and watch it in the "screening room" so to speak. I listen to see if any level adjustments and whatnot need to be made. Sure, it is a lengthy process, but the limitations of the Mac make it necessary and plus my computer room is not exactly audiophile quality (though it is good). Throw in the obnoxious noise that the fans in these new G4's make and it gets even worse to set levels properly in here. It usually takes anywhere from 1 day to 5 days to do a sound mix on a 5 minute project. And I love every minute of it!

[Paul Sedillo]

It will be very interesting to see the new changes. I would expect that they will address the 24p situation (thanks to Panasonic). As we have talked about before, they REALLY need to address the audio.

Someone was telling me that it is fairly simple to upgrade a G4's processor. Is this a true statement?

[Mark Austin]

<<<-- Originally posted by Curtis T. Stoeber It usually takes anywhere from 1 day to 5 days to do a sound mix on a 5 minute project. And I love every minute of it! -->>>

Unfortunately, my music stuff is in a production environment so I have to get my projects done fast due to the workload I have. I don't have the luxury of taking five days to do one number. I just got a CD mastering project that is ten albums 15-16 songs each due by Jan 1st, and I have to run sessions on top of that too. If had to do my FCP projects like that I'd never get anything finished.

<<<-- Mixing the 24 (or more, sometimes less) tracks is just like mixing anything else. Except the Mac does not have a realtime 6 channel audio output card for this (that I know of) and FCP does not support 5.1 channels of audio. -->>>

The ProTools Digi 002 does 5.1 and just uses a firewire hookup, it also does 32 tracks at 24/96 and sounds great. Logic Audio / Cubase / Nuendo does the same with dedicated hardware but with no track limits (128+tracks). None of which can be used from within FCP. Projects like yours that take five days should only take a few minutes, I'm all for enjoying the "moment" but if I ever want to get to the point with video that I am with audio, FCP will have to get with the program..Time is my greatest enemy :)

On another note: yet another company gets with the audio program..
December 18 - Pinnacle Systems announced that it has entered into a definitive agreement to acquire all of the stock of Steinberg Media Technologies (Cubase/Nuendo) AG based in Hamburg, Germany. Steinberg specializes in digital audio software solutions for consumers and professionals.
These people obviously see the need to get the proper audio tools to be first rate.

Pick up a copy of Mix magazine, it's loaded with great info on audio recording tools. It's the holy grail of audio magazines.

[Simon Plissi]

I wouldn't bother with them. We had a copy were I used to work an I only ever used two of the effects, Zoom Blur & Light Sweep. At one point they were the "must have" filters for After Effects but since then many similar effects have been integrated within After Effects itself and Final Cut. And there are also many cheaper plug-ins available which produce similar effects for the ones you're most likely to use. They're really over priced too.

As for rumours, well, as Mac users it's our stock in trade.

Surely Apple will start to integrate some of their acquired audio and post-production know-how into FCP. Wouldn't damage their specific product lines if they were to beef up the audio, which is a must for FCP anyway, and compositing in FCP. But who knows with Apple.

[Simon Plissi]

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Sedillo
Someone was telling me that it is fairly simple to upgrade a G4's processor. Is this a true statement? -->>>

I believe so. I know someone who tried it, even though he eventually sent it back for a refund because it was faulty. If he could do it then anyone could. Whether it's worth it is another matter. Apple do make it hard for these kinds of upgrades. One can't just swap G4 processors and expect it to work. The upgrade manufactures also have to write new firmware updates for major OS updates to allow the new chips to be recognised by the motherboard/OS. So, you will be at their mercy to constantly write upgrades to allow the chips to work.

[Paul Sedillo]

<<<-- Originally posted by Simon - X :
I believe so. I know someone who tried it, even though he eventually sent it back for a refund because it was faulty. If he could do it then anyone could. Whether it's worth it is another matter. Apple do make it hard for these kinds of upgrades. One can't just swap G4 processors and expect it to work. The upgrade manufactures also have to write new firmware updates for major OS updates to allow the new chips to be recognised by the motherboard/OS. So, you will be at their mercy to constantly write upgrades to allow the chips to work. -->>>

That would make sense. I spoke with Dell Computers today and inquired about upgrading my laptop processor. After the representative quit laughing, he said that the only upgrade available is a new laptop. <shook my head in disgust>

[Paul Sedillo]

John,

Have you seen the plug-in's from Buena Software:

http://www.buena.com/eefcp.html

[Henrik Bengtsson]

Anyone here purchased a non-Mac specific Geforce 4 MX/Ti card for OSX? Im looking at getting me a new card since i want to be able to run 2 screens with minimum of hassle.

Any tips on what card to buy would be greatly appreciated.

/henrik