NLE Mac / Final Cut questions from 2002

[Kevin McCarthy]

I do currently have an external 80 gig "Maxtor" 5400 RPM firewire drive. I have edited several 45 minute - 1 hour programs with 5-6 video layers and 6 audio tracks and havn't had any trouble yet. It requires some serious RAM management, but no dropped frames or freezes. I do realize by writing this down I have just jinxed my next project, but oh well.

I know I won't have "real-time" effects with 3.0, but if I can still use a full pallet if FX and multiple tracks, I'll be happy.

Thanks again for all your help
Kev

[Ram Nagarajan]

Rob, Dan, thanks for the comments:
Dan, no I don't own the DSR-11 yet, but I'm putting together a system config right now, and the Sony DSR-11 is the only moderately priced VTR that I can find that also has some kind of service back up here.
While on the subject of configs, though, how does this sound:
PowerMac Dual 1 GHz
Superdrive (but of course)
1 GB RAM (i.e. 512 MB additional)
17" Apple LCD display + Samtron/LG 17" CRT display
GeForce 4MX display card w/64 MB onboard RAM
56 K modem
80 GB HDD for media + 40 GB for OS and software
FCP 3 + AfterEffects 5 + Boris Red + Photoshop 7
Sony DSR-11 as edit-dedicated VTR
Sony 8" broadcast monitor (8" 'cause this is going with me on shoots as well!)

Any suggestions on what else I should be looking out for/bargaining for? I'm trying to get the system within the next fortnight.

Best,
Ram

[Daniel Berube]

<<<-- Originally posted by Aaron Frick : I just upgraded on my media100 from grafitti 1.0 to boris red 2.1 and every title I had in my system is now way out of whack. Any suggestions on how to open grafitti once I have installed red? -->>>

Have you vissited Tim's Corner at http://www.borisfx.com? Tim Wislon, who is a regular presenter at my BOSFCPUG meetings here in Boston, contributes to it on a regular basis and he is there to answer any questions regarding the software.

I've just started to get trained on the software and also in using it so I have not yet experienced the issue. However, I will also email Tim directly as well and see about getting an answer for you in case the above url does not help.

Let me know...

[Daniel Berube]

Is anyone editing uncompresssed video with Final Cut Pro? I'd like to hear from you, your thoughts, opinions, tips/tricks, etc. What capture card are you using, and how do you rate its' performance? Please be sure to list your present setup configuration in your post.

Incidentally, Macworld has just released a comparison of the four capture cards available for uncompressed video editing with FCP: AJA Video Systems' Kona SD, Aurora Video Systems' IgniterRT, Digital Voodoo's D1 64AV, and Pinnacle Systems' CineWave Classic.

Macworld has made the review available online, you can read the comparison at:
http://www.macworld.com/2002/09/reviews/video.html

Happy editing,

[Adrian Seah]

Hi again guys,

I've got a question here... I've read somewhere on this board (can't seem to find the exact post now!) that someone prefers to capture footage from a XL1S through the S-video out and RCA jacks using an uncompressed capture card instead of thru firewire. Apparently, this produces a higher quality/ bandwith picture (despite the generation loss?) If I remember correctly, he mentions that he does this especially if the footage has to be reworked quite extensively.

My question is... is this true? Does it somehow bypass the 5:1 DV compression? or is the compression already recorded to tape? Does it improve the image quality in any way? Are there any advantages to working like that?

Fire away guys!

Thanks

Adrian

[Nathan Gifford]

Everything on the tape is compressed. I cannot see what the advantage would be of using composite out. It is even more difficult to see how RCA video signal would approach the quality of the 1394.

I guess the question here is whether the live stream is uncompressed or not. If the live stream is uncompressed, you ** might ** get S-video signal to offer some improvements.

[Rob Lohman]

The RCA signal will definitely not be better then your firewire.

You **might** be able to curcumvent the 5:1 DV compression
*IF* (and only if) you record directly from that port WHILE
shooting. It would not make much sense that a component
signal will be compressed and then decompressed to be viewed.
That would take extra CPU cycles while not adding anything,
so I doubt that during shooting it has degraded.

BUT, if you are playing back from tape it already is 5:1 DV
compressed so then it makes no difference at all. It can only
get worse, not better.

It might be interesting to compare the SVHS out of the XL1s
while shooting and playing back to see if the signal is different
indeed.

One other thing. Even if the SVHS out while shooting is better
you still need some expensive hardware to make it all work,
namely:

- Uncompressed component (PREFERRED!)/RGB board
- A harddisk system that can handle an uncompressed stream,
sustained! (around 30 MB/s -> you will NEED raid 0 or very
fast SCSI harddisk for that)

So all in all it might not be worth it. But if you already have
such a system lying around it might be an interesting option.
But then you'd have to take that system with you on the shoot
to benefit from it.

Perhaps blue/green/orange screen work in your own studio
or motion control / time lapse / stop motion work may benefit
from this all since it is indoor and requires the best signal
possible...

I hope this all made some sense.

[Jeff Donald]

The exception would be doing many layers and graphics. In theory, the adding of layers, effects graphics etc. will require rendering. The rendering and recompressing the file will degrade the image each go around. The slightly lower quality analog footage will benefit by being uncompressed. Each rendering will not degrade the image. Very complex layers and graphics will benefit from the uncompressed format.

Jeff

[Adrian Seah]

Pardon my ignorance guys, but how does one shoot/work in uncompressed? If I'm not wrong, all DV formats (DV, DVCAM, DVCpro etc) have some form of compression. Does it mean working in analogue then outputting to the NLE in component? Can digital formats be 'uncompressed' (apart from the zillion dollar prototype cameras)

Thanks

Adrian

[Ken Tanaka]

I beieve that some professional cameras can send "component" video out. I believe that the new(er) Sony DSR570 and perhaps the DSR370 can send component video out through a BNC connection. This is excellent equipment...but significantly more expensive than a prosumer setup. A basic DSR370 setup will cost at least $20-25k, a DSR570 will run $35-55k.

Frankly, DV's compression effects are way, way down on my list of factors to be concerned about.

[Jeff Donald]

If a camera has a 26 pin connection it will usually support Component (YPrPb), composite, and RGB. Then you need some kind of a device that will transcode (encode) the signal into something a signal your computer or NLE can understand. Much of this is accomplished through the capture cards included with some NLE's. During the transcode phase it will be converted from analog to digital. Some high end cameras have will out digital signals directly. The digital signal that they output may be compressed or uncompressed. If and only if, the signal can be kept uncompressed all the way through, you will not have compression artifacts. Very few NLE's have the storeage space and processing power to work with uncompressed files.

Jeff

[Rob Lohman]

I'm not afraid that the NLE can't handle those datastreams, it
is more your harddisks. That is way you'll need a very fast and
large RAID array. AVI supports uncompressed native, so you
can use that to store it in.

Again, you only have a benefit with uncompressed if the signal
is coming directly off the CCD's and is not being compressed/
decompressed by the camera. This is something that must be
established first!

[Mac Daddy]

You may have solved this already, but I thought I'd forward what I just learned this morning. I guess when FCP sees a firewire device hooked up to it, it automatically will playback video through the firewire. I even imported already-digitized footage from a tutorial, and couldnt hear anything through the computer.
The canopus converter (have one coming in the mail) is supposed to convert everything in the box and send it along the firewire. You shouldnt have to render it.

Hope this info is at least a little bit helpful.

Jeff Patnaude

[Mike Finnerty]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to let you all know that my new (and first) Mac was delivered today! I decided to take advantage of the price drop on the older dual 1gHz G4 Power Macs. I've been spending some time getting myself acquainted with OSX and the computer in general.

So far...I love it.

Next step is to purchase some extra RAM and an additional hard drive. Then later this year I'll be putting some money towards Final Cut Pro. Can't wait!

Anyone have any favorite retailers for buying RAM/hard drives, etc? Or do you have any that you like to avoid?

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has answered many of my questions over the past year (especially Ken & Dan) and helped me feel comfortable making this purchase.

I know that I'll have many more questions for all of you and I look forward to the many replies I'm sure to recieve!

[B. Moore]

Can anyone tell me why Mac couldn't come out with OS X 2.0 or OSX1 and REPLACE classic, OS 9 etc, and OSX, so one program can do it all as far as year old programs. Right now we have OS 9, Classic, OS X1.5 and personally I think it's pretty lazy on Mac's part. I know, all the Mac users are going to say"you should see the IBM/PC systems". Or should we just wait for OS XVll?
Bruce