NLE Mac / Final Cut questions from 2002

Jeff Donald · August 2nd, 2002, 06:13 PM

Yes, the Animation setting will give much better results. I think it's the default setting in AE because I don't remember ever changing it.

Jeff

Kevin McCarthy · August 2nd, 2002, 07:34 PM

Thanks,

I did a quick test and it was much better. I had to shut off field render too.
I'm an Avid guy new to FCP and in Avid using field render has a crisper result.
Thanks for all your help.

I assumed the capture codec would yield the best results if kept the same through-out the whole process.

Kev

Ram Nagarajan · August 2nd, 2002, 09:39 PM

Hi all:
I'm considering a new FCP3 based NLE system for my documentary group, and have just been offered a Palmette PowerMac with the following config:
G4 Dual 1 GHz/RAM 1GB/40 GB internal OS HDD + 80 GB internal media HDD (both IBM)/OS 10.2 + FCP 3.0 + Boris Red/Apple PLasma 17 " LCD display

I work both on short form and longform docs (5 min to 90 min); not too much by way of effects work, though we've been using a fair bit on an educational series for children that we're working on. So:

1. Is there anything else I should be looking for in the system config?
2. At first glance the Apple LCD display [besides loooking coool :-)] seems to have a more contrasty but sharper diplay than the CRT. What are the pros and cons of the plasma display? (The lower power consumtion is a serious consideration where I'm at, for one - saves the battery back up in my UPS).
3.The specs sheet for the system says there's support for two monitors, one ADC and one VGA. Can someone please tell me (duh!) what an ADC display is?
4. I'm also advised that to connect a broadcast monitor, I'll have to chain it through firewire and a VTR/camera. Is there any other way to hook up a broadcast monitor?
5. While on the question of VTRs, what's a good low cost miniDV VTR that I can use with the system? Someone suggested the Sony Video walkman (I think the GVD 900 E). Any suggestions?

Thanks - and I'll think up some more questions while I get some comments!
Best,
Ram

Ken Tanaka · August 2nd, 2002, 10:24 PM

Greetings Ram!
Whew, you sure have presented a plate-ful of questions. I'll take a swing at some and I'm sure others will, also.

First, your base system looks very nice. In fact it's similar to mine.

Regarding the monitor, I use Apple's 22" Cinema display. Size aside, it's real advantage is its aspect ratio (roughly 16:9). This is ideal for working with FCP and kindred apps because it leaves room for all of the windows and palettes to tile nicely on the screen with no cramped feeling or overlapping. A more square 17" monitor would certainly work but not as nicely as the wider display.

Re: ADC -vs- VGA, this really just refers to Apple's proprietary monitor display connector (ADC). For example, my Cinema display has only one cable (with an ADC connector) leading to the computer. No other power cord is used, since the ADC cable send both power and signals to/from the computer. The ADC also supports a 2-port USB hub in the monitor, a very handy and tidy design.

Some models of the Quicksilver G4 use an nVidia display adapter which features both ADC and (more standard) VGA display connectors which can, indeed, be used simultaneously to drive separate monitors.

Re: power, yes LCD displays use 1/4-1/3 the power of comparable CRT displays. They are also brighter and not susceptible to the flicker that CRT's seem to exhibit as they age or when they're near flourescent lights.

Re: a broadcast monitor, you will need one to accurately view your work. Mine is, indeed, connected via Firewire through my deck. The alternative would be to use some form of break-out box / board such as the RTMac (not necessarily recommended). Some of the "real-time" boards offer direct connection of an NTSC/PAL monitor. The DV-to-deck route works very nicely as long as the deck is powered-up.

Re: decks, I use a Panasonic AG DV-1000 which I'm very pleased with. It's small, economical and reliable. It does, however, only handle miniDV. I think it's bigger brother, the DV-2000, might handle larger casettes, probably DVCPro. The Sony decks are always reliable choices. The Walkman would be a good choice if you need to use a deck in the field since it has a small LCD screen. For studio-only use the Sony DSR-11 or DSR-20 would be good choices.

OK, I'm all-in for the evening. I'll let someone else take a swing.

Good luck with your project, Ram. It looks like you're having some fun...or soon will have some fun!

August 2nd, 2002, 10:43 PM

Having abandoned my computer 18 months ago for world travel, I am now home and wanting all the new gadgetry. I run OS 9.4 but would love to update to OSX, install iDVD etc. Can a G3 have its hard drive expanded inexpensively?? A superdrive is what I'm after, or am I best to add more ram, an external hard drive (lacie) and just put up with slow rendering speeds??? Any opinion is appreciated.

Ram Nagarajan · August 2nd, 2002, 11:02 PM

Ken,
Thanks a ton - I probably will be having fun once I lay a-hold of that system! Macs are humungously expensive in India, but what the heck - you only live once!

<<I use Apple's 22" Cinema display...it leaves room for all of the windows and palettes to tile nicely on the screen with no cramped feeling or overlapping.>>
Hey, you don't have to tell me - I'm sold on the Cinema Display, but I can't afford it! :-)

<<Some models of the Quicksilver G4 use an nVidia display adapter which features both ADC and (more standard) VGA display connectors which can, indeed, be used simultaneously to drive separate monitors.>>

Oops, sorry - forgot to mention that the display card on offer is the Geforce 4 with 64 MB on-board ...it was displayed with two monitors, which were combined to form contiguous workspace: One 17"" plasma dispaly, and one 17" La Cie CRT.

<<The Walkman would be a good choice if you need to use a deck in the field since it has a small LCD screen. For studio-only use the Sony DSR-11 or DSR-20 would be good choices.>>
Yup, came up with same answers myself...the Video Walkman is a whole lot cheaper than the DSR-11 and the DSR-20 (and probably the Dv-2000 as well.

Thanks again - and who's up to bat next? :-)
Ram

Matt Stahley · August 3rd, 2002, 01:10 AM

im pretty sure you will need a G4 to run idvd.yes you can get massive storage for about $1 or so a GB and its not too difficult installing new Hd's in towers though if you have an iMac it can be a little tricky

Martin Munthe · August 3rd, 2002, 03:11 AM

There currently is no card that supports dual ADC. My system is set up of two 15" Apple LCD's with two ATI cards (AGP and PCI). Coming from an Avid background i like the dual workspace setting. It gives me almost twice the size of a Cinema display workspace at a third of the prize (but the Cinema Display sure is sexy...)

The true "eyes" of any system is the broadcast monitor. I would not set up any system without a decent broadcast monitor.

Ram Nagarajan · August 3rd, 2002, 04:34 AM

Martin:
Not sure if I'm confusing issues here, but the system I've been offered has two monitor outputs on a single display card - one ADC output and one VGA.
I totally agree with you about the importance of having a broadcast monitor - only question is whether I can fit it in my budget right away!
Best,
Ram

Jeff Donald · August 3rd, 2002, 06:52 AM

Your best editors usually use 2 monitors because of the extra space for palettes, bins, browser etc. The extra space allows things to be spread out for maximum efficancy, your not spending all your time clicking windows and resizing to find what you need. The exception is the large Apple Cinema displays. they don't have wide spread use yet, but they are the future. The GeForce4 Ti supports 2 monitors. Complete details are on Apples site http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html If you need a third party solution, Dr Botts have custom connectors http://www.drbott.com/prod/DVIator.html Depending on the number and size of projects you work on simultaniously, a large drive might be in order. An external FireWire drive would be ideal. But if all your work is short form then it may not be necessary.

Jeff

Jeff Donald · August 3rd, 2002, 07:04 AM

Give the complete specs of your system and I'll try to advize you the best I can. The Apple System Profiler (under the Apple Menu) will give you all the details on your system, amount of ram, CPU speed etc. Also, what fo you want your iMac to do? Editing with iMovie or FCP 3?

Jeff

Ram Nagarajan · August 3rd, 2002, 08:06 AM

Jeff, Ken:
Considering the one proprietary ADC + one VGA output on the GeForce 4 card, can I connect two 3rd party CRT monitors (say, the La Cie monitors I was mentioning?) Or does one of the monitors HAVE to be an Apple LCD display? (Just asking because I'm considering all the price variables...)
Also, can I plug in any and all 3rd party audio amp/speaker systems into the audio out? (Say the Cambridge soundworks 5-speaker setup that's available nowadays?) The dealer, naturally, is suggesting Apple Pro Speakers - are they any good?
Best,
Ram

August 3rd, 2002, 08:19 AM

Jeff, my system is 400mhz 13gigs of storage 128ks of ram running OS 9.4. I'd love to run FCP3.0.....a web search gave me little in the way of updating my processor to more than the current 400mhz. Thanks Brett

Jeff Donald · August 3rd, 2002, 08:33 AM

Check out Dr. Bott, I think they make an adapter called the VGA extractor that will give you 2 VGA monitors. I'm not 100% sure it works with the latest video cards.

Jeff

Mark Sloan · August 3rd, 2002, 08:38 AM

To use the ADC connnecter with a non-Apple LCD monitor you will need an adapter that goes from ADC to the industry standard DVI (in fact, the first version of Apple LCDs used DVI and then Apple switched to ADC). More info can be found here:
http://www.drbott.com/prod/action.lasso?-database=Products&-layout=all&-response=detail.html&Code=0116-ADCD&Publish=Yes&-search
(there is also info if you want to go from ADC to VGA as well)
As for the audio... you'll notice that there are 2 audio output jacks. One is a standard minijack, the other is an Apple audio jack that only the Apple Pro Speakers work with. At least, they are the only ones I have seen. They have pretty good range on the mids/highs, but you might want to go with something that can work with standard minijack and would need the iSub for lows. The cool thing is that the Apple audio jack is powered so you have the potential to hook up normal speakers using this: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/cables_accessories/prospeaker_breakout.html
What this doesn't mention is how many watts it supplies in power.
Hope this helps.

August 2nd, 2002, 09:39 PM	#438
Ram Nagarajan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 107	New NLE/FCP3 system questions... Hi all: I'm considering a new FCP3 based NLE system for my documentary group, and have just been offered a Palmette PowerMac with the following config: G4 Dual 1 GHz/RAM 1GB/40 GB internal OS HDD + 80 GB internal media HDD (both IBM)/OS 10.2 + FCP 3.0 + Boris Red/Apple PLasma 17 " LCD display I work both on short form and longform docs (5 min to 90 min); not too much by way of effects work, though we've been using a fair bit on an educational series for children that we're working on. So: 1. Is there anything else I should be looking for in the system config? 2. At first glance the Apple LCD display [besides loooking coool :-)] seems to have a more contrasty but sharper diplay than the CRT. What are the pros and cons of the plasma display? (The lower power consumtion is a serious consideration where I'm at, for one - saves the battery back up in my UPS). 3.The specs sheet for the system says there's support for two monitors, one ADC and one VGA. Can someone please tell me (duh!) what an ADC display is? 4. I'm also advised that to connect a broadcast monitor, I'll have to chain it through firewire and a VTR/camera. Is there any other way to hook up a broadcast monitor? 5. While on the question of VTRs, what's a good low cost miniDV VTR that I can use with the system? Someone suggested the Sony Video walkman (I think the GVD 900 E). Any suggestions? Thanks - and I'll think up some more questions while I get some comments! Best, Ram

August 2nd, 2002, 10:24 PM	#439
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Greetings Ram! Whew, you sure have presented a plate-ful of questions. I'll take a swing at some and I'm sure others will, also. First, your base system looks very nice. In fact it's similar to mine. Regarding the monitor, I use Apple's 22" Cinema display. Size aside, it's real advantage is its aspect ratio (roughly 16:9). This is ideal for working with FCP and kindred apps because it leaves room for all of the windows and palettes to tile nicely on the screen with no cramped feeling or overlapping. A more square 17" monitor would certainly work but not as nicely as the wider display. Re: ADC -vs- VGA, this really just refers to Apple's proprietary monitor display connector (ADC). For example, my Cinema display has only one cable (with an ADC connector) leading to the computer. No other power cord is used, since the ADC cable send both power and signals to/from the computer. The ADC also supports a 2-port USB hub in the monitor, a very handy and tidy design. Some models of the Quicksilver G4 use an nVidia display adapter which features both ADC and (more standard) VGA display connectors which can, indeed, be used simultaneously to drive separate monitors. Re: power, yes LCD displays use 1/4-1/3 the power of comparable CRT displays. They are also brighter and not susceptible to the flicker that CRT's seem to exhibit as they age or when they're near flourescent lights. Re: a broadcast monitor, you will need one to accurately view your work. Mine is, indeed, connected via Firewire through my deck. The alternative would be to use some form of break-out box / board such as the RTMac (not necessarily recommended). Some of the "real-time" boards offer direct connection of an NTSC/PAL monitor. The DV-to-deck route works very nicely as long as the deck is powered-up. Re: decks, I use a Panasonic AG DV-1000 which I'm very pleased with. It's small, economical and reliable. It does, however, only handle miniDV. I think it's bigger brother, the DV-2000, might handle larger casettes, probably DVCPro. The Sony decks are always reliable choices. The Walkman would be a good choice if you need to use a deck in the field since it has a small LCD screen. For studio-only use the Sony DSR-11 or DSR-20 would be good choices. OK, I'm all-in for the evening. I'll let someone else take a swing. Good luck with your project, Ram. It looks like you're having some fun...or soon will have some fun! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

August 2nd, 2002, 10:43 PM	#440
collingwood58 Posts: n/a	Updating GE Imac DV Special Edition Having abandoned my computer 18 months ago for world travel, I am now home and wanting all the new gadgetry. I run OS 9.4 but would love to update to OSX, install iDVD etc. Can a G3 have its hard drive expanded inexpensively?? A superdrive is what I'm after, or am I best to add more ram, an external hard drive (lacie) and just put up with slow rendering speeds??? Any opinion is appreciated.

August 3rd, 2002, 03:11 AM	#443
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	There currently is no card that supports dual ADC. My system is set up of two 15" Apple LCD's with two ATI cards (AGP and PCI). Coming from an Avid background i like the dual workspace setting. It gives me almost twice the size of a Cinema display workspace at a third of the prize (but the Cinema Display sure is sexy...) The true "eyes" of any system is the broadcast monitor. I would not set up any system without a decent broadcast monitor. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

August 3rd, 2002, 08:19 AM	#448
collingwood58 Posts: n/a	Re Updating Imac G# Special EditionDV Jeff, my system is 400mhz 13gigs of storage 128ks of ram running OS 9.4. I'd love to run FCP3.0.....a web search gave me little in the way of updating my processor to more than the current 400mhz. Thanks Brett

August 2nd, 2002, 06:13 PM	#436
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Yes, the Animation setting will give much better results. I think it's the default setting in AE because I don't remember ever changing it. Jeff

August 2nd, 2002, 07:34 PM	#437
Kevin McCarthy Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 30	Thanks, I did a quick test and it was much better. I had to shut off field render too. I'm an Avid guy new to FCP and in Avid using field render has a crisper result. Thanks for all your help. I assumed the capture codec would yield the best results if kept the same through-out the whole process. Kev

August 2nd, 2002, 11:02 PM	#441
Ram Nagarajan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 107	Ken, Thanks a ton - I probably will be having fun once I lay a-hold of that system! Macs are humungously expensive in India, but what the heck - you only live once! <<I use Apple's 22" Cinema display...it leaves room for all of the windows and palettes to tile nicely on the screen with no cramped feeling or overlapping.>> Hey, you don't have to tell me - I'm sold on the Cinema Display, but I can't afford it! :-) <<Some models of the Quicksilver G4 use an nVidia display adapter which features both ADC and (more standard) VGA display connectors which can, indeed, be used simultaneously to drive separate monitors.>> Oops, sorry - forgot to mention that the display card on offer is the Geforce 4 with 64 MB on-board ...it was displayed with two monitors, which were combined to form contiguous workspace: One 17"" plasma dispaly, and one 17" La Cie CRT. <<The Walkman would be a good choice if you need to use a deck in the field since it has a small LCD screen. For studio-only use the Sony DSR-11 or DSR-20 would be good choices.>> Yup, came up with same answers myself...the Video Walkman is a whole lot cheaper than the DSR-11 and the DSR-20 (and probably the Dv-2000 as well. Thanks again - and who's up to bat next? :-) Ram

August 3rd, 2002, 01:10 AM	#442
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	im pretty sure you will need a G4 to run idvd.yes you can get massive storage for about $1 or so a GB and its not too difficult installing new Hd's in towers though if you have an iMac it can be a little tricky

August 3rd, 2002, 04:34 AM	#444
Ram Nagarajan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 107	Martin: Not sure if I'm confusing issues here, but the system I've been offered has two monitor outputs on a single display card - one ADC output and one VGA. I totally agree with you about the importance of having a broadcast monitor - only question is whether I can fit it in my budget right away! Best, Ram

August 3rd, 2002, 06:52 AM	#445
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Your best editors usually use 2 monitors because of the extra space for palettes, bins, browser etc. The extra space allows things to be spread out for maximum efficancy, your not spending all your time clicking windows and resizing to find what you need. The exception is the large Apple Cinema displays. they don't have wide spread use yet, but they are the future. The GeForce4 Ti supports 2 monitors. Complete details are on Apples site http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html If you need a third party solution, Dr Botts have custom connectors http://www.drbott.com/prod/DVIator.html Depending on the number and size of projects you work on simultaniously, a large drive might be in order. An external FireWire drive would be ideal. But if all your work is short form then it may not be necessary. Jeff

August 3rd, 2002, 07:04 AM	#446
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Give the complete specs of your system and I'll try to advize you the best I can. The Apple System Profiler (under the Apple Menu) will give you all the details on your system, amount of ram, CPU speed etc. Also, what fo you want your iMac to do? Editing with iMovie or FCP 3? Jeff

August 3rd, 2002, 08:06 AM	#447
Ram Nagarajan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 107	Jeff, Ken: Considering the one proprietary ADC + one VGA output on the GeForce 4 card, can I connect two 3rd party CRT monitors (say, the La Cie monitors I was mentioning?) Or does one of the monitors HAVE to be an Apple LCD display? (Just asking because I'm considering all the price variables...) Also, can I plug in any and all 3rd party audio amp/speaker systems into the audio out? (Say the Cambridge soundworks 5-speaker setup that's available nowadays?) The dealer, naturally, is suggesting Apple Pro Speakers - are they any good? Best, Ram

August 3rd, 2002, 08:33 AM	#449
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Check out Dr. Bott, I think they make an adapter called the VGA extractor that will give you 2 VGA monitors. I'm not 100% sure it works with the latest video cards. Jeff

August 3rd, 2002, 08:38 AM	#450
Mark Sloan Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 346	To use the ADC connnecter with a non-Apple LCD monitor you will need an adapter that goes from ADC to the industry standard DVI (in fact, the first version of Apple LCDs used DVI and then Apple switched to ADC). More info can be found here: http://www.drbott.com/prod/action.lasso?-database=Products&-layout=all&-response=detail.html&Code=0116-ADCD&Publish=Yes&-search (there is also info if you want to go from ADC to VGA as well) As for the audio... you'll notice that there are 2 audio output jacks. One is a standard minijack, the other is an Apple audio jack that only the Apple Pro Speakers work with. At least, they are the only ones I have seen. They have pretty good range on the mids/highs, but you might want to go with something that can work with standard minijack and would need the iSub for lows. The cool thing is that the Apple audio jack is powered so you have the potential to hook up normal speakers using this: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/cables_accessories/prospeaker_breakout.html What this doesn't mention is how many watts it supplies in power. Hope this helps.