NLE Mac / Final Cut questions from 2002

Joe Redifer · July 29th, 2002, 07:49 PM

By the way, the XL1 does not have a 24fps Frame Mode. I wish it did. It instead has a 30fps Frame Mode for NTSC, and 25fps Frame Mode for PAL, and nobody seems to care about SECAM.

I posted this before, but I think it got deleted when the forum crashed awhile back.

Ken Tanaka · July 29th, 2002, 09:43 PM

Amazon.com is offering a deeply discounted price ($79) on the upcoming OS 10.5 (Jaguar) update. (Note that this discount comes in the form of a $50 post-sale rebate.)

For more information go to:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006F7S2

(Looks like they'll become the pressure relief valve for the massive complaints that Apple has received concerning no upgrade pricing on the upgrade.)

Joe Redifer · July 29th, 2002, 11:31 PM

Wow. $50 off of an OS that hasn't even been conceived yet! 10.5 is still a long ways away. I'll have to settle for 10.2. (I know that's what you meant). But I don't think I'll purchase the standalone OS. I'll just wait until I buy a new Mac and it comes with it. Then maybe I'll install it on my current Mac as well, but I have a feeling it'll just live in OS 9.

Can OS 9 and OS X share files between eachother?

Ken Tanaka · July 29th, 2002, 11:39 PM

Mea culpa. Indeed, I meant OS 10.2, not 10.5.

Yes, there's no file conversion involved in converting from OS 9 to OS 10. There is, however, a behind-the-scenes file system conversion to add the Unix attributes to files and folders.

David Slingerland · July 30th, 2002, 05:24 AM

I do use it and it is just as simple, you tell it to burn and it does it well..
But toast probably has more options .. although i dont know wich. Anyway i completed the project and had cleaner made an mpg1 version. So far the client is satisfied and now it will be duplicated for promotion and distribution.
Thanks for your help
David

July 30th, 2002, 02:41 PM

Hey all!
Using FCP, I have a project that turned out to be 2 hours and 20 minutes long. In order to fit it on DVD (using iDVD), I cut the footage in half and figured I'd put the first half on 1 DVD and burn the 2 half on another.

Low and behold... the first half- NO problem. The 2nd half (1 hour 10 minutes) will not be accepted by iDVD. Says the file will not fit.

I tried re-rendering, and I tried saving as self contained movie. Still no luck. Could it be the file size has nothing to do with DV video length? I thought anything under 2 hours should fit on a DVD.

(The guys in the new APPLE store in Long Island, NY told me it should fit.
BUT IT DOESN'T.)

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Linwood
LBMAESTRO@yahoo.com

Jeff Donald · July 30th, 2002, 05:29 PM

The problem is with iDVD. It doesn't have much flexibility. The bit rate is fixed, if memory serves me correct. But hey, it's free. The bit rate determines the amount of compresson applied to the FCP file. You may be able to apply some additional comression by importing and exporting through QuickTime. DVD SP is much more flexible, but you'd expect that for $999. There may be some iDVD users here, but if not search Apples iDVD discussion area or post a question.

Jeff

Michael Westphal · July 30th, 2002, 10:34 PM

iDVD 2 can burn projects up to 90 minutes long. I've already turned off the G4, so can't look up the option, but there is, somewhere, a setting to lower the bitrate and up the time you can save to the dvd.
If you have iDVD v1, then you are limited to one hour.

Ken Tanaka · August 1st, 2002, 04:26 PM

Today amazon.com pulled this offer due to "heavier than expected demand". My bet is that the "demand" was an angry call from Mr. Jobs to Mr. Bezos.

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0208/01.amazon.php

Ken Tanaka · August 1st, 2002, 04:39 PM

You are correct. iDVD normally burns 60 mins of material to a disc. If you give it 61-90 mins it will alter the compression (bit rate) to make it fit (at some expense to the quality). But it will not burn 2hrs onto the disc. Also note that DVD "General" discs (the type normally for sale to the public) are more limited than the "Authoring" discs used for theatrical release. Why? To ensure that people can't brew their own theatrical releases, of course.

As has been noted earlier DVD Studio Pro is much more flexible in terms of compression and nearly every other aspect of disc authoring. But it's also considerably more complex, exposing details of the DVD build process that iDVD politely shields from users.

Bottom line: 2hrs+ No Go with iDVD.

Kevin McCarthy · August 2nd, 2002, 07:31 AM

I can't seem to get my After Effects movies to look decent in FCP.
My original capture to FCP is "DV-NTSC". I export the clip I want using same codec and import into AE. When I render my movie and import back to FCP it looks terrible. I've tried several different options (Field Render, upper 1st, lower 1st) and just can't seem to figure it out.
I am working on FCP 1.2.5 and AE 4.1
Also, all movies are 720x480 and 30fps

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks
Kev

Rik Sanchez · August 2nd, 2002, 10:46 AM

How does the footage look when you put it back into FCP? What is bad about it? Exporting out of FCP is okay, its just when you export out of AE that the footage looks bad back in FCP?

Tell us the exact settings you use to export it out of FCP and the ones for exporting out of AE. I'm sure it's just a setting you have wrong, when we know what you did exactly, someone can tell you what's up.

One thing I noticed is your settings should be set at 29.97 fps, you will get out of sync video using the 30fps. render it again using the 29.97fps and see what happens.

Kevin McCarthy · August 2nd, 2002, 12:04 PM

The footage looks muddy and pixelated. It looks like a VERY low Avid resolution.
It seems to export out of FCP OK. Only after the render and export from AE and re-import to FCP does it get ugly.

capture to FCP:
QT movie
DV-NTSC compressor
Best Quality
29.97 fps
size - 720x480

Export from FCP:
QT movie
DV-NTSC compressor
Best Quality
29.97 fps
size - 720x480

Render in AE:

Quality - Best
Resolution - Best
Size - 720x480
Field Render - upper 1st (have also tried lower 1st)
Frame rate - 29.97

Export AE:

QT movie
DV NTSC compressor
Spatial quality - high (100)
Channels - RGB
color - premultiplied
fps - 29.97
Size - 720x480

I hope that's enough info

Thanks again

Kev

Rik Sanchez · August 2nd, 2002, 12:16 PM

kev,
when a friend and I worked on a video, he had me export the video out of FCP as an animation compression, and export out of AE the same way, he rotoscoped the video and I asked why animation, he said it drew each frame separately and gave a better quality. try that setting on a short 15 sec clip and see if it helps.

also check out this AE forum: http://www.wwug.com/forums/adobe_after-effects/index.htm

when my friend had a question, this is where he went for AE answers. hope this helps.

Michael Westphal · August 2nd, 2002, 12:39 PM

Many folks do not seem to know that Apple offers an "Online Subscription" for developers. For $199 a year you get a pack of CDs every month and 4 DVDs a year with the most current OS in every language. It's how I stay up to date.
(Full disclosure: You don't have to BE a developer. There's nothing to prove other than to register with Apple and provide a valid credit card. AND not every month is new OS CD. Most months it's just reference materials and SDKs (software development kits).)

July 29th, 2002, 09:43 PM	#422
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Amazon Discounts Jaguar Update Amazon.com is offering a deeply discounted price ($79) on the upcoming OS 10.5 (Jaguar) update. (Note that this discount comes in the form of a $50 post-sale rebate.) For more information go to: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006F7S2 (Looks like they'll become the pressure relief valve for the massive complaints that Apple has received concerning no upgrade pricing on the upgrade.) __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 29th, 2002, 11:39 PM	#424
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Mea culpa. Indeed, I meant OS 10.2, not 10.5. Yes, there's no file conversion involved in converting from OS 9 to OS 10. There is, however, a behind-the-scenes file system conversion to add the Unix attributes to files and folders. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 30th, 2002, 02:41 PM	#426
lbmaestro Posts: n/a	File too large for DVD... but not too long? Hey all! Using FCP, I have a project that turned out to be 2 hours and 20 minutes long. In order to fit it on DVD (using iDVD), I cut the footage in half and figured I'd put the first half on 1 DVD and burn the 2 half on another. Low and behold... the first half- NO problem. The 2nd half (1 hour 10 minutes) will not be accepted by iDVD. Says the file will not fit. I tried re-rendering, and I tried saving as self contained movie. Still no luck. Could it be the file size has nothing to do with DV video length? I thought anything under 2 hours should fit on a DVD. (The guys in the new APPLE store in Long Island, NY told me it should fit. BUT IT DOESN'T.) Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Linwood LBMAESTRO@yahoo.com

August 1st, 2002, 04:26 PM	#429
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Well, so much for that! Today amazon.com pulled this offer due to "heavier than expected demand". My bet is that the "demand" was an angry call from Mr. Jobs to Mr. Bezos. http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0208/01.amazon.php __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

August 1st, 2002, 04:39 PM	#430
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	iDVD User Here You are correct. iDVD normally burns 60 mins of material to a disc. If you give it 61-90 mins it will alter the compression (bit rate) to make it fit (at some expense to the quality). But it will not burn 2hrs onto the disc. Also note that DVD "General" discs (the type normally for sale to the public) are more limited than the "Authoring" discs used for theatrical release. Why? To ensure that people can't brew their own theatrical releases, of course. As has been noted earlier DVD Studio Pro is much more flexible in terms of compression and nearly every other aspect of disc authoring. But it's also considerably more complex, exposing details of the DVD build process that iDVD politely shields from users. Bottom line: 2hrs+ No Go with iDVD. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 29th, 2002, 07:49 PM	#421
Joe Redifer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 290	By the way, the XL1 does not have a 24fps Frame Mode. I wish it did. It instead has a 30fps Frame Mode for NTSC, and 25fps Frame Mode for PAL, and nobody seems to care about SECAM. I posted this before, but I think it got deleted when the forum crashed awhile back.

July 29th, 2002, 11:31 PM	#423
Joe Redifer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 290	Wow. $50 off of an OS that hasn't even been conceived yet! 10.5 is still a long ways away. I'll have to settle for 10.2. (I know that's what you meant). But I don't think I'll purchase the standalone OS. I'll just wait until I buy a new Mac and it comes with it. Then maybe I'll install it on my current Mac as well, but I have a feeling it'll just live in OS 9. Can OS 9 and OS X share files between eachother?

July 30th, 2002, 05:24 AM	#425
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	I do use it and it is just as simple, you tell it to burn and it does it well.. But toast probably has more options .. although i dont know wich. Anyway i completed the project and had cleaner made an mpg1 version. So far the client is satisfied and now it will be duplicated for promotion and distribution. Thanks for your help David

July 30th, 2002, 05:29 PM	#427
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The problem is with iDVD. It doesn't have much flexibility. The bit rate is fixed, if memory serves me correct. But hey, it's free. The bit rate determines the amount of compresson applied to the FCP file. You may be able to apply some additional comression by importing and exporting through QuickTime. DVD SP is much more flexible, but you'd expect that for $999. There may be some iDVD users here, but if not search Apples iDVD discussion area or post a question. Jeff

July 30th, 2002, 10:34 PM	#428
Michael Westphal Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 166	iDVD 2 can burn projects up to 90 minutes long. I've already turned off the G4, so can't look up the option, but there is, somewhere, a setting to lower the bitrate and up the time you can save to the dvd. If you have iDVD v1, then you are limited to one hour.

August 2nd, 2002, 07:31 AM	#431
Kevin McCarthy Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 30	Importing and Exporting FCP to After Effects I can't seem to get my After Effects movies to look decent in FCP. My original capture to FCP is "DV-NTSC". I export the clip I want using same codec and import into AE. When I render my movie and import back to FCP it looks terrible. I've tried several different options (Field Render, upper 1st, lower 1st) and just can't seem to figure it out. I am working on FCP 1.2.5 and AE 4.1 Also, all movies are 720x480 and 30fps Any suggestions would be great. Thanks Kev

August 2nd, 2002, 10:46 AM	#432
Rik Sanchez ChorizoSmells Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 424	How does the footage look when you put it back into FCP? What is bad about it? Exporting out of FCP is okay, its just when you export out of AE that the footage looks bad back in FCP? Tell us the exact settings you use to export it out of FCP and the ones for exporting out of AE. I'm sure it's just a setting you have wrong, when we know what you did exactly, someone can tell you what's up. One thing I noticed is your settings should be set at 29.97 fps, you will get out of sync video using the 30fps. render it again using the 29.97fps and see what happens. __________________ ChorizoSmells Video Barrio Tamatsukuri, Osaka, JAPAN

August 2nd, 2002, 12:04 PM	#433
Kevin McCarthy Regular Crew Join Date: May 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 30	The footage looks muddy and pixelated. It looks like a VERY low Avid resolution. It seems to export out of FCP OK. Only after the render and export from AE and re-import to FCP does it get ugly. capture to FCP: QT movie DV-NTSC compressor Best Quality 29.97 fps size - 720x480 Export from FCP: QT movie DV-NTSC compressor Best Quality 29.97 fps size - 720x480 Render in AE: Quality - Best Resolution - Best Size - 720x480 Field Render - upper 1st (have also tried lower 1st) Frame rate - 29.97 Export AE: QT movie DV NTSC compressor Spatial quality - high (100) Channels - RGB color - premultiplied fps - 29.97 Size - 720x480 I hope that's enough info Thanks again Kev

August 2nd, 2002, 12:16 PM	#434
Rik Sanchez ChorizoSmells Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 424	kev, when a friend and I worked on a video, he had me export the video out of FCP as an animation compression, and export out of AE the same way, he rotoscoped the video and I asked why animation, he said it drew each frame separately and gave a better quality. try that setting on a short 15 sec clip and see if it helps. also check out this AE forum: http://www.wwug.com/forums/adobe_after-effects/index.htm when my friend had a question, this is where he went for AE answers. hope this helps. __________________ ChorizoSmells Video Barrio Tamatsukuri, Osaka, JAPAN

August 2nd, 2002, 12:39 PM	#435
Michael Westphal Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 166	Many folks do not seem to know that Apple offers an "Online Subscription" for developers. For $199 a year you get a pack of CDs every month and 4 DVDs a year with the most current OS in every language. It's how I stay up to date. (Full disclosure: You don't have to BE a developer. There's nothing to prove other than to register with Apple and provide a valid credit card. AND not every month is new OS CD. Most months it's just reference materials and SDKs (software development kits).)