Editing HDV

[Luke Hansen]

Where I work I shoot with an HVX200, and edit with FCP on a Mac Quad.

I'm looking at buying an XH-A1 for myself, and everything about it seems awesome, but I'm a little worried about render and export times for HDV.

I'm wondering what your experiences editing HDV footage (with FCP) has been like.

I've heard because HDV interpolates a lot of the frames, when you make a cut, it has to render. Is this correct? When else does it need rendering? Does it make you crazy? Would it be worth it to pay the extra cash for a HVX200?

I know these are all "it depends" questions, but I'd just like to get some general thoughts and opinions on editing HDV.

Thanks guys!

[Luke Hansen]

I have the FCP 2 update, if that makes any difference.

[Michael Palmer]

Luke
I would look at the Sony V1u as it has a secret uncompressed all digital HDMI port you can take advantage of using the Convergent Design MI or Nano Connect making HD-SDI to capture with professional capture card transcoding into Apple's new Pro Rez codec for those using an Intel Mac Pro. Using the HDMI is the most cost effective solution to a real time full raster 1920x1080 HD image from a camera under 5K. Plus is shoots progressive 24p - 30p. I have it and highly suggest it to anyone. A great camera, here is my description.
In my opinion this Sony V1U is a solid solution to HDV aquisition. I took delivery (12-15-06) and I have been using it thoroughly since. The 3 cmos chips use what Sony calls the ClearVid image enhancing processor to produce what I call a soft edge cinematic image while recording in 24p mode. However you will need to dial down the sharpness to about 7 or lower for this look. The 3-cmos chips are rotated 90 degrees and its unique signal processing separates the image data and brightness components to processes these independently. This progressive process is in 4:2:2 color space before the HDV compression phase. It would be best equated it to older 5248 Kodak (50 asa) stock for those who can remember it. As video camera’s go I feel comfortable with the display image however manual setting are necessary with the on board monitor. The Histogram has been a great way to expose after a small learning curve and I keep it up on display at all time makes as it is easy to adjust exposure. The twenty times lens is a big improvement from the Z1U, while you may want a wide angle adapter for a large part of event style shooting. Lighting is HDV’s friend and being a Gaffer in Hollywood I know what it takes to properly light for HDV video. This camera is what I call a slow camera so know going in it needs a solid ambient light for best results. As most cameras have an analogue HD RGB out this unit has an extra HDMI port out that delivers 1920x1080i digital uncompressed signal with Sony’s real-time error-correction control (enhancing tape dropouts which is not found in software codec). This signal can be converted with the Convergent Design MI Connect device to HD-SDI signal with Time Code from 1394 to the MI from DV firewire from the camera to capture threw your favorite HD-SDI card. I use the Kona LHe and bring in the SDI signal to the codec of choice for the project I’m working on. If you are really enthusiastic you can capture live to hard drive before HDV compression using the HDMI port to the AJA I/O HD that is coming out in July and just may rival ½ or 2/3 HD chip cameras for static use. Now those who don't think this is a great value at around 4k please do the math.

[Kevin Shaw]

I don't use FCP but I can tell you that editing HDV is manageable on the latest fast computers, with the caveat that you'll get less real-time performance than you would on the same computer with DV. Because HDV is a GOP-based recording format your finished projects have to be 'conformed' (rendered) to create a GOP-compliant output file, but that isn't necessary until you're done editing. You can also improve editing performance by converting HDV source material to a non-GOP editing codec like AIC, DVCProHD or Cineform Aspect HD. This increases the file size about three-fold to roughly 40 GB/hour instead of 13 GB/hour for HDV, but with hard drives so cheap these days that's not a big deal.

If you're used to using an HVX200 at work there may be something to be said to buying one for personal use, but the P2 memory cards are expensive if you need to do any long-form recording. If you're not sure what to do you could try buying a small HDV camera for around $1000-1500 and experiment with it before committing to more expensive gear. If you're satisfied with HDV keep the little camera as a backup for a better HDV model; if not either use it for personal work or sell it and get the HVX200. Just a thought...

[Iain Anderson]

Originally Posted by Luke Hansen

Where I work I shoot with an HVX200, and edit with FCP on a Mac Quad.

I'm looking at buying an XH-A1 for myself, and everything about it seems awesome, but I'm a little worried about render and export times for HDV.

I'm wondering what your experiences editing HDV footage (with FCP) has been like.

I've heard because HDV interpolates a lot of the frames, when you make a cut, it has to render. Is this correct? When else does it need rendering? Does it make you crazy? Would it be worth it to pay the extra cash for a HVX200?

I know these are all "it depends" questions, but I'd just like to get some general thoughts and opinions on editing HDV.

Thanks guys!

You can cut HDV on a MacBook Pro without having to render after each cut. The editing process is very smooth, playback is instant and the footage should be very clear.

When you export to tape (Print to Video) you will have to "conform" the video so it can be output -- like a render over the whole piece. This can take several times realtime (20 seconds just took ~2 minutes on my laptop), but if you're only doing it once at the end, it can be forgiven.

If you're going to be colour correcting, consider transcoding your finished edit to ProRes 422 and correcting that.

[Coco Bermudez]

Originally Posted by Iain Anderson

You can cut HDV on a MacBook Pro without having to render after each cut. The editing process is very smooth, playback is instant and the footage should be very clear..

I am planning to shoot HDV on a GY-HD100U. All I have is a MacBook Pro Version 10.4.10 2GHz intel Core Duo with 2GB of SDRAM. I also only have Final Cut Pro version 5.1.4

Would this be suffice to edit or am i looking into a massive headache?

[Theodore McNeil]

Originally Posted by Coco Bermudez

I am planning to shoot HDV on a GY-HD100U. All I have is a MacBook Pro Version 10.4.10 2GHz intel Core Duo with 2GB of SDRAM. I also only have Final Cut Pro version 5.1.4

Would this be suffice to edit or am i looking into a massive headache?

At home, I cut HDV on a three year old 1.33 Ghz Powerbook with 1.5 Gb of RAM and I don't have any problems. So you should be fine.

[Dave Lammey]

Originally Posted by Coco Bermudez

I am planning to shoot HDV on a GY-HD100U. All I have is a MacBook Pro Version 10.4.10 2GHz intel Core Duo with 2GB of SDRAM. I also only have Final Cut Pro version 5.1.4

Would this be suffice to edit or am i looking into a massive headache?

I edit HDV (shot with FX1) on a 2.16 GHz Macbook Pro with 2 Gig RAM, FCP 5.1.4, and if you don't use a lot of filters, it edits very much like DV, except that the render and export times are longer.

Most of my editing is realtime, though occasionally I need to render if there are multiple filters or titles on a clip ... but when I export the HDV timeline via compressor to a standard def mpeg2, the time is usually about 10 times the length of the project on the timeline.

[Henrik Reach]

Editing HDV is no problem on my Dual 2,5Ghz G5, so you should be fine.

I run everything through compressor after capture so I can work with DVCPro HD 1080 instead though. That's what seemed best for me when I tried different ways to work with my A1 footage after I got it.

[Konrad Czystowski]

What about ProRes, Henrik?

[Henrik Reach]

Originally Posted by Konrad Czystowski

What about ProRes, Henrik?

I'm on a G5, so ProRes is a no-go for me unfortunately.. That was my first thought too, but it just didn't work, so DVCPro HD became what worked for me. When I get a Mac Pro I'll do a new test though.