Bug with Advanced Pulldown Removal and DV Start/Stop Detect at DVinfo.net

Adam Woodworth · May 16th, 2007, 07:24 AM

Hi all,

When I capture a tape with "capture now" using Advanced Pulldown Removal (the footage is 24pA on tape), then when I use the "DV Start/Stop Detection" to make FCP add segments to the clip where the camera started and stopped, FCP is marking them in the wrong place. In fact, it's marking them where they would be if the clip was 29.97fps, but since it's 23.98 they're off.

Has anyone else experienced, and know if there's a workaround? Maybe it's fixed in FCP 6?

Thanks,
Adam

Adam Woodworth · June 3rd, 2007, 10:07 PM

Welp, not fixed in FCP 6. I reported this to Apple via their feedback page recently. Maybe we'll see it fixed in the future...maybe...

In the meantime, if anyone has any magic ideas that would make this work, let me know. :)

Jonathan Bergstrom · June 24th, 2007, 10:36 AM

Just ran into the same problem myself. If I digitize the footage at 29.97, and then mark the DV start stop, it finds it correctly. I then copied all of the markers into a new folder to make them subclips. Under "Tools" you can then run the "Remove Advanced Pulldown" to the individual clips. It's been working half the time for me. On some clips it will give me an error that there is a break in the advanced pulldown cadence. That is the part I am stuck on now.

(I shot with an XL2, and brought the footage in via the same camera.)

Adam Woodworth · June 24th, 2007, 05:59 PM

With FCP 6 and the open format timeline, it's become easier to workaround this braindead bug in FCP's DV scene detection. I use Live Capture Plus to capture the footage outside of FCP -- Live Capture Plus can do DV scene detection during capture (something FCP should be able to do) and make separate files for each clip. Live Capture Plus doesn't really support removing 24p or detecting and marking the files as such (at least not that I've seen), so I capture my 24pA footage at 29.97, and with the open format timeline in FCP6 I can bring the 29.97 clips into a 24p sequence in FCP6 and it seems to detect the 24pA cadence automagically and drop the right frames.

I have not, however, extensively tested this so it's completely possible FCP6 might break with some clips like this...who knows given how flakey its "Remove Advanced Pulldown" tool is that you mentioned (I've used that too).

The plus side is that with Live Capture Plus you get a file per clip, which I find easier to manage and you probably don't have to cross your fingers as much when you use the Media Manager to get rid of unused footage.

You could bring the 29.97 footage into FCP6, use the "Remove Advanced Pulldown" feature to mark the clips as 24p to perhaps be on the safer side, but if the open format timeline is worth its salt and works as much like Vegas as it can, then not having to do that would be a bit more convenient IMHO.

Pete Costanzo · June 27th, 2007, 03:35 PM

If this happens and the "remove advanced pulldown" fails (as it has happened to me), or, if the clip after the removal gets corrupted from the Remove Advanced Pulldown, you can use Cinema Tools. Just pull the clip in then use "Conform" to 23.98 and that will fix the clip every time. In fact, I just go straight to cinema tools if the clip gets pulled in wrong.

Gene Crucean · August 15th, 2007, 02:12 PM

I'm battling through this issue at the moment also and here is my workflow if anyone is interested. Seems to be working ok. Identical visual quality too.

- Capture as a normal 29.97 DV video (interlaced).
- Mark DV start/stop points.
- Tools > Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine.

Segment marks intact and in correct position still. Resulting file will be 24fps.

- Conform to 23.98 if needed. But note that this will produce a file that will not have sequence markers still. The 24fps file before this step will play fine in a 23.98 timeline without rendering.

Does anyone have a workflow that works the way it should yet? I would definitely prefer a capture in the correct format workflow instead of all this crap. I reverted back from 6.x and am back working in 5.1.4 for the time being.

edit: err... now I just reverse telecined two more clips and they are coming out at 23.98!?!?!?

May 16th, 2007, 07:24 AM	#1
Adam Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 55	Bug with Advanced Pulldown Removal and DV Start/Stop Detect Hi all, When I capture a tape with "capture now" using Advanced Pulldown Removal (the footage is 24pA on tape), then when I use the "DV Start/Stop Detection" to make FCP add segments to the clip where the camera started and stopped, FCP is marking them in the wrong place. In fact, it's marking them where they would be if the clip was 29.97fps, but since it's 23.98 they're off. Has anyone else experienced, and know if there's a workaround? Maybe it's fixed in FCP 6? Thanks, Adam __________________ Bourbon: It's hard being a small time gangster. http://www.bourbonmovie.com

June 3rd, 2007, 10:07 PM	#2
Adam Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 55	Welp, not fixed in FCP 6. I reported this to Apple via their feedback page recently. Maybe we'll see it fixed in the future...maybe... In the meantime, if anyone has any magic ideas that would make this work, let me know. :) __________________ Bourbon: It's hard being a small time gangster. http://www.bourbonmovie.com

June 24th, 2007, 10:36 AM	#3
Jonathan Bergstrom New Boot Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle, Washington USA Posts: 11	Just ran into the same problem myself. If I digitize the footage at 29.97, and then mark the DV start stop, it finds it correctly. I then copied all of the markers into a new folder to make them subclips. Under "Tools" you can then run the "Remove Advanced Pulldown" to the individual clips. It's been working half the time for me. On some clips it will give me an error that there is a break in the advanced pulldown cadence. That is the part I am stuck on now. (I shot with an XL2, and brought the footage in via the same camera.) __________________ www.smallfirefilms.com

June 24th, 2007, 05:59 PM	#4
Adam Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 55	With FCP 6 and the open format timeline, it's become easier to workaround this braindead bug in FCP's DV scene detection. I use Live Capture Plus to capture the footage outside of FCP -- Live Capture Plus can do DV scene detection during capture (something FCP should be able to do) and make separate files for each clip. Live Capture Plus doesn't really support removing 24p or detecting and marking the files as such (at least not that I've seen), so I capture my 24pA footage at 29.97, and with the open format timeline in FCP6 I can bring the 29.97 clips into a 24p sequence in FCP6 and it seems to detect the 24pA cadence automagically and drop the right frames. I have not, however, extensively tested this so it's completely possible FCP6 might break with some clips like this...who knows given how flakey its "Remove Advanced Pulldown" tool is that you mentioned (I've used that too). The plus side is that with Live Capture Plus you get a file per clip, which I find easier to manage and you probably don't have to cross your fingers as much when you use the Media Manager to get rid of unused footage. You could bring the 29.97 footage into FCP6, use the "Remove Advanced Pulldown" feature to mark the clips as 24p to perhaps be on the safer side, but if the open format timeline is worth its salt and works as much like Vegas as it can, then not having to do that would be a bit more convenient IMHO. __________________ Bourbon: It's hard being a small time gangster. http://www.bourbonmovie.com

June 27th, 2007, 03:35 PM	#5
Pete Costanzo Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: United States Posts: 25	If this happens and the "remove advanced pulldown" fails (as it has happened to me), or, if the clip after the removal gets corrupted from the Remove Advanced Pulldown, you can use Cinema Tools. Just pull the clip in then use "Conform" to 23.98 and that will fix the clip every time. In fact, I just go straight to cinema tools if the clip gets pulled in wrong. __________________ www.wakefieldproductions.com www.elegantweddingproductions.com

August 15th, 2007, 02:12 PM	#6
Gene Crucean Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 295	I'm battling through this issue at the moment also and here is my workflow if anyone is interested. Seems to be working ok. Identical visual quality too. - Capture as a normal 29.97 DV video (interlaced). - Mark DV start/stop points. - Tools > Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine. Segment marks intact and in correct position still. Resulting file will be 24fps. - Conform to 23.98 if needed. But note that this will produce a file that will not have sequence markers still. The 24fps file before this step will play fine in a 23.98 timeline without rendering. Does anyone have a workflow that works the way it should yet? I would definitely prefer a capture in the correct format workflow instead of all this crap. I reverted back from 6.x and am back working in 5.1.4 for the time being. edit: err... now I just reverse telecined two more clips and they are coming out at 23.98!?!?!? Last edited by Gene Crucean; August 15th, 2007 at 04:59 PM.