Apple has other "New Products" at DVinfo.net

Jeff Donald · May 6th, 2003, 12:43 PM

Alongside the new eMacs introduced today are new keyboards and mouse.

The keyboard sports a new design with the USB ports on the rear, rather than the sides. No details on improvements to the mouse, but it does have a new part number indicating some changes. It is not the rotary design rumored for several weeks.

OS 10.2.6 is due any day to fix some minor USB problems and a short list of refinements.

Eric Emerick · May 6th, 2003, 07:11 PM

hehe, still one button? I just don't get it. The most innovative computer company in the world, saing "no" to a better input device. It's like Seinfeld says in his act, " The chinese have seen the fork, but they're staying' with the chopsticks".

Boyd Ostroff · May 6th, 2003, 08:37 PM

I think some people make entirely too big a deal over this. There are all sorts of 3rd party 3 button mice for the Mac. Personally, I use a Wacom Intuitos graphics tablet which I really like. In addition to the stylus it comes with a cordless 3 button mouse. The left button has the normal Mac functions. The right button brings up contextual menus, just like Windoze. With a one-button Mac mouse these would be accessed by holding down the CONTROL key while clicking.

The third (middle) mouse button is actually a scroll wheel that can be depressed to click. This has the same effect as "double clicking" with the normal one button mouse, and the scroll wheel is fully functional also.

I also use the standard Apple optical mouse on my laptop and it's very nice and responsive. I do tend to "search" for the extra buttons however at times ;-) But like I said, it really isn't a big deal to depress the control key instead of right-clicking. You're happy with your PC, I like my Mac. What is there to argue about?...

Ken Tanaka · May 6th, 2003, 09:11 PM

Boyd's correct. I, too, use an Intuos tablet and mouse, the latter providing all the functionality missing from more contemporary (PC) mice. I've become so accustomed to using a tablet with my editor and graphics apps over the years that I can't imagine being without it (and even use a small Graphire tablet & mouse with my Powerbook).

So I think that the market has long since worked beyond this, admittedly puzzling and apparently stubborn, core design limitation of Macs.

Boyd Ostroff · May 6th, 2003, 10:26 PM

Personally I think we see the strong hand of Steve Jobs here. He likes one button mice and runs the company the way he wants. Hell, the clear optical mice don't have any buttons at all (the whole mouse is the "button"). I've always admired him, but his stubborness has certainly led to a few quirks (putting it nicely) over the objection of his own staff. He's an eccentric... if he wants to buy the world's largest record company that's what he'll do, Wall Street be damned! ;-) How about the early Macs that were literally burning up because he refused to put fans in them (I used to repair them for friends; the power supply boards somtimes had holes burned right through). Or his absolute refusal to put a 'control' key on the keyboard (until the Mac Plus). As somebody else said, either "insanely great" or "greatly insane"...

Did you catch him on the cover of Fortune Magazine this month posing with Sheryl Crow and an iPod? Interesting story.

Ken Tanaka · May 6th, 2003, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Did you catch him on the cover of Fortune Magazine this month posing with Sheryl Crow and an iPod? Interesting story.

I have the issue on my desk but have not yet read the article. Interesting cover photo, though, eh? From what I've read, Steve Jobs loves to hob-nob with entertainment celebs. I can just imagine that the Fortune layout folks were just dying to put a tagline on that cover like, "Is that an iPod in your pants, Cheryl, or are you just glad to see me?"

Clayton Farr · May 7th, 2003, 07:44 AM

<<<-- I've become so accustomed to using a tablet with my editor...that I can't imagine being without it. -->>>

Hi Ken,

I haven't really thought to use a tablet since I moved from design (used with graphic & illustrating apps) to video/film. How are you finding it more productive in an editing environment (using it with your NLE?)

Thanks,
Clayton

Ken Tanaka · May 7th, 2003, 10:12 AM

I find a tablet/pen to be a very good way to perform actions such as scrubbing the timeline, dragging to the timeline, setting keyframing, and trimming clips. But it's also just a handier way to navigate a large screen than a mouse.

I also use a Shuttle Pro for certain common maneuvers.

Eric Emerick · May 7th, 2003, 11:55 AM

hmmm, interesting replies. I probably shouldn't be surprised that people in this forum wouldn't have a problem with a one button mouse because, as you have stated, most will be using an entirely different device regardless. I'm thinking of the people who buy eMacs and iMacs. I mean, Macs are at a premium to begin with, why should someone have to spend another $30 or so just to get basic usefulness out of their mouse? And i disagree that ctrl+click is just as easy as right click. Having just purchased a 3 button mouse, it has improved my computing experience greatly. I am physically impaired, so consider it an accessibility issue. Anyway, I'm off topic, so, 'nuff said. A Wacom is in my not too distant future as well.

Charles Papert · May 7th, 2003, 12:08 PM

Jeff, when do you think we might see a new version of the 15" Powerbook that brings it up to the same feature set as the 17"?

Jeff Donald · May 7th, 2003, 01:39 PM

Al 15" PowerBooks are due no later than WWDC, the end of June. There was speculation that it was being delayed, so that 970 chips could be used, rather than G4. This is unlikely, because the present 970 design is not suitable for portable use. They consume too much power and get too hot. I would expect new designs using the 970's in the PowerBooks around the first of the year.

Jeff Price · May 7th, 2003, 03:36 PM

Apple supposedly just received a patent on a new type of mouse. I doubt this is it so I wonder what is in the pipeline. Some rumors have suggested that it might be a cross between the optical mouse and the scroll wheel on the iPod.

Then there is the hidden feature on the new iPods - they can record! So, somewhere down the road it may be possible to slap a microphone on the iPod and record straight to hard disk.

Curtis T. Stoeber · May 10th, 2003, 12:36 AM

Apple doesn't care about usability. Only style. That's it. Otherwise there would be a reset button on the latest PowerMac G4s (like on their computers of the past). Instead, you must hold in the power button for what seems like forever for it to restart. Another big example is the mirrored drive doors. What the hell? I can't even eject discs when I want because the disc eject button is hidden, and I must use a proprietary Apple keyboard with a disc eject button on it. If there is something wrong with the computer and it won't boot from the hard drive, I cannot boot up from the CD simply because there is NO WAY to get the drives open UNLESS the OS is booted up. How stupid is that? Very. But at least the tower looks nice and shiny with the drive doors, and by God that's what counts. I really do not like Apples' keyboards of late. They feel wimpy and cheap. But they look stylish and that's what counts. And I should not be required to buy a new mouse and keyboard when I buy a Mac, especially given their asking price. The only exception would be if I used a tablet. If Apple wants to attract PC users to their platform, they will offer a two button mouse WITH a scroll wheel. I cannot live without a scroll wheel. It's already natively supported in OS X, so I'm not sure what their problem is. Oh yeah, style is more important. I forgot.

I really hate Apples' computers. They suck. But I love their software and that's why I keep using Macs.

Jeff Donald · May 10th, 2003, 06:34 PM

Actually the reset button was incorporated into the keyboard at the request of many users. Many towers are racked mounted or placed in such a manner that getting to the reset button was next to impossible. A great many users have clamored for a on/off switch on the keyboard as well. My old Quadra 950's that ran Avid Media composers, had the switch on the keyboard. Personally, I liked it.

If you don't like the standard mouse, buy one that suites your needs better. I prefer a track ball for editing. But I don't feel it's Apples responsibility to provide me with one. Many items that are standard issue (OEM) from the manufactures don't meet everyones requirements. I don't like the cheap tires that come with most new cars. So should everyone be required to pay for the high performance tires I prefer?

Curtis T. Stoeber · May 11th, 2003, 02:10 AM

You're right, Apple should not be required to provide you with a trackball, but it certainly would be to their benefit to include a two-button mouse with a scrollwheel as most people on the planet prefer. You just can't work as quickly and as efficiently with a one-button mouse. It's all about demand and supply. A two-button mouse with a scroll wheel wouldn't add hardly anything to Apples' costs in the long run. Their profit margin is already quite hefty. As for the reset button, my supplied Apple keyboard certainly did not have one (unless it is hidden or invisible?). And even if it did why can there be ONLY ONE reset button? Why is it always EITHER/OR? Provide a reset button on the keyboard AND on the computer itself. People LOVE options. Just like my car. I can unlock it with the key OR the remote entry system. I am not forced to use one or the other. This is an interesting concept that has yet to be grasped by Apple, obviously. Also I am curious as to why the power/shutdown button was REMOVED from the keyboard. My old Mac IIci had this, and so did my old G3 (whose keyboard I am using right now). Can somebody please explain this to me? This makes about as much sense as when they removed line-level audio input awhile back. They realized how idiotic that was and fortunately restored that feature. Again with the cost of Macs vs every other computer in the world that is faster and far more capable, cost simply cannot be an issue with Apple. Macs only cost more because they are proprietary. The hardware has been surpassed by the PC world.

I still would like to hear their logic behind the whole mirrored drive door subject that I mentioned in my last post. I highly doubt that it can be justified, though, so I won't hold my breath. I imagine if Apple still let other vendors make computers I probably would not be complaining.

I will defend Apple to the death when it comes to their software. But the computers themselves ARE inferior by concept/design (except the way the side opens up to access everything--that's definitely cool) and by the actual hardware that runs everything to what is available in the PC world right now, for less money. I hope that changes someday soon.

May 6th, 2003, 12:43 PM	#1
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Apple has other "New Products" Alongside the new eMacs introduced today are new keyboards and mouse. The keyboard sports a new design with the USB ports on the rear, rather than the sides. No details on improvements to the mouse, but it does have a new part number indicating some changes. It is not the rotary design rumored for several weeks. OS 10.2.6 is due any day to fix some minor USB problems and a short list of refinements. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 6th, 2003, 07:11 PM	#2
Eric Emerick Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 171	mouse hehe, still one button? I just don't get it. The most innovative computer company in the world, saing "no" to a better input device. It's like Seinfeld says in his act, " The chinese have seen the fork, but they're staying' with the chopsticks". __________________ esquared

May 6th, 2003, 09:11 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Boyd's correct. I, too, use an Intuos tablet and mouse, the latter providing all the functionality missing from more contemporary (PC) mice. I've become so accustomed to using a tablet with my editor and graphics apps over the years that I can't imagine being without it (and even use a small Graphire tablet & mouse with my Powerbook). So I think that the market has long since worked beyond this, admittedly puzzling and apparently stubborn, core design limitation of Macs. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 7th, 2003, 10:12 AM	#8
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I find a tablet/pen to be a very good way to perform actions such as scrubbing the timeline, dragging to the timeline, setting keyframing, and trimming clips. But it's also just a handier way to navigate a large screen than a mouse. I also use a Shuttle Pro for certain common maneuvers. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 7th, 2003, 11:55 AM	#9
Eric Emerick Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 171	hmmm, interesting replies. I probably shouldn't be surprised that people in this forum wouldn't have a problem with a one button mouse because, as you have stated, most will be using an entirely different device regardless. I'm thinking of the people who buy eMacs and iMacs. I mean, Macs are at a premium to begin with, why should someone have to spend another $30 or so just to get basic usefulness out of their mouse? And i disagree that ctrl+click is just as easy as right click. Having just purchased a 3 button mouse, it has improved my computing experience greatly. I am physically impaired, so consider it an accessibility issue. Anyway, I'm off topic, so, 'nuff said. A Wacom is in my not too distant future as well. __________________ esquared

May 6th, 2003, 08:37 PM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	I think some people make entirely too big a deal over this. There are all sorts of 3rd party 3 button mice for the Mac. Personally, I use a Wacom Intuitos graphics tablet which I really like. In addition to the stylus it comes with a cordless 3 button mouse. The left button has the normal Mac functions. The right button brings up contextual menus, just like Windoze. With a one-button Mac mouse these would be accessed by holding down the CONTROL key while clicking. The third (middle) mouse button is actually a scroll wheel that can be depressed to click. This has the same effect as "double clicking" with the normal one button mouse, and the scroll wheel is fully functional also. I also use the standard Apple optical mouse on my laptop and it's very nice and responsive. I do tend to "search" for the extra buttons however at times ;-) But like I said, it really isn't a big deal to depress the control key instead of right-clicking. You're happy with your PC, I like my Mac. What is there to argue about?...

May 6th, 2003, 10:26 PM	#5
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	Personally I think we see the strong hand of Steve Jobs here. He likes one button mice and runs the company the way he wants. Hell, the clear optical mice don't have any buttons at all (the whole mouse is the "button"). I've always admired him, but his stubborness has certainly led to a few quirks (putting it nicely) over the objection of his own staff. He's an eccentric... if he wants to buy the world's largest record company that's what he'll do, Wall Street be damned! ;-) How about the early Macs that were literally burning up because he refused to put fans in them (I used to repair them for friends; the power supply boards somtimes had holes burned right through). Or his absolute refusal to put a 'control' key on the keyboard (until the Mac Plus). As somebody else said, either "insanely great" or "greatly insane"... Did you catch him on the cover of Fortune Magazine this month posing with Sheryl Crow and an iPod? Interesting story.

May 7th, 2003, 07:44 AM	#7
Clayton Farr Contributor Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 94	<<<-- I've become so accustomed to using a tablet with my editor...that I can't imagine being without it. -->>> Hi Ken, I haven't really thought to use a tablet since I moved from design (used with graphic & illustrating apps) to video/film. How are you finding it more productive in an editing environment (using it with your NLE?) Thanks, Clayton

May 7th, 2003, 12:08 PM	#10
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Jeff, when do you think we might see a new version of the 15" Powerbook that brings it up to the same feature set as the 17"? __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

May 7th, 2003, 01:39 PM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Al 15" PowerBooks are due no later than WWDC, the end of June. There was speculation that it was being delayed, so that 970 chips could be used, rather than G4. This is unlikely, because the present 970 design is not suitable for portable use. They consume too much power and get too hot. I would expect new designs using the 970's in the PowerBooks around the first of the year. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 7th, 2003, 03:36 PM	#12
Jeff Price Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chico, California Posts: 357	Apple supposedly just received a patent on a new type of mouse. I doubt this is it so I wonder what is in the pipeline. Some rumors have suggested that it might be a cross between the optical mouse and the scroll wheel on the iPod. Then there is the hidden feature on the new iPods - they can record! So, somewhere down the road it may be possible to slap a microphone on the iPod and record straight to hard disk. __________________ Jeff Price Flickerflix Nature Videos flickerflix@yahoo.com

May 10th, 2003, 12:36 AM	#13
Curtis T. Stoeber Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lakewood Colorado USA Posts: 150	Apple doesn't care about usability. Only style. That's it. Otherwise there would be a reset button on the latest PowerMac G4s (like on their computers of the past). Instead, you must hold in the power button for what seems like forever for it to restart. Another big example is the mirrored drive doors. What the hell? I can't even eject discs when I want because the disc eject button is hidden, and I must use a proprietary Apple keyboard with a disc eject button on it. If there is something wrong with the computer and it won't boot from the hard drive, I cannot boot up from the CD simply because there is NO WAY to get the drives open UNLESS the OS is booted up. How stupid is that? Very. But at least the tower looks nice and shiny with the drive doors, and by God that's what counts. I really do not like Apples' keyboards of late. They feel wimpy and cheap. But they look stylish and that's what counts. And I should not be required to buy a new mouse and keyboard when I buy a Mac, especially given their asking price. The only exception would be if I used a tablet. If Apple wants to attract PC users to their platform, they will offer a two button mouse WITH a scroll wheel. I cannot live without a scroll wheel. It's already natively supported in OS X, so I'm not sure what their problem is. Oh yeah, style is more important. I forgot. I really hate Apples' computers. They suck. But I love their software and that's why I keep using Macs.

May 10th, 2003, 06:34 PM	#14
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Actually the reset button was incorporated into the keyboard at the request of many users. Many towers are racked mounted or placed in such a manner that getting to the reset button was next to impossible. A great many users have clamored for a on/off switch on the keyboard as well. My old Quadra 950's that ran Avid Media composers, had the switch on the keyboard. Personally, I liked it. If you don't like the standard mouse, buy one that suites your needs better. I prefer a track ball for editing. But I don't feel it's Apples responsibility to provide me with one. Many items that are standard issue (OEM) from the manufactures don't meet everyones requirements. I don't like the cheap tires that come with most new cars. So should everyone be required to pay for the high performance tires I prefer? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 11th, 2003, 02:10 AM	#15
Curtis T. Stoeber Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lakewood Colorado USA Posts: 150	You're right, Apple should not be required to provide you with a trackball, but it certainly would be to their benefit to include a two-button mouse with a scrollwheel as most people on the planet prefer. You just can't work as quickly and as efficiently with a one-button mouse. It's all about demand and supply. A two-button mouse with a scroll wheel wouldn't add hardly anything to Apples' costs in the long run. Their profit margin is already quite hefty. As for the reset button, my supplied Apple keyboard certainly did not have one (unless it is hidden or invisible?). And even if it did why can there be ONLY ONE reset button? Why is it always EITHER/OR? Provide a reset button on the keyboard AND on the computer itself. People LOVE options. Just like my car. I can unlock it with the key OR the remote entry system. I am not forced to use one or the other. This is an interesting concept that has yet to be grasped by Apple, obviously. Also I am curious as to why the power/shutdown button was REMOVED from the keyboard. My old Mac IIci had this, and so did my old G3 (whose keyboard I am using right now). Can somebody please explain this to me? This makes about as much sense as when they removed line-level audio input awhile back. They realized how idiotic that was and fortunately restored that feature. Again with the cost of Macs vs every other computer in the world that is faster and far more capable, cost simply cannot be an issue with Apple. Macs only cost more because they are proprietary. The hardware has been surpassed by the PC world. I still would like to hear their logic behind the whole mirrored drive door subject that I mentioned in my last post. I highly doubt that it can be justified, though, so I won't hold my breath. I imagine if Apple still let other vendors make computers I probably would not be complaining. I will defend Apple to the death when it comes to their software. But the computers themselves ARE inferior by concept/design (except the way the side opens up to access everything--that's definitely cool) and by the actual hardware that runs everything to what is available in the PC world right now, for less money. I hope that changes someday soon.