DVD Studio/Compressor? at DVinfo.net

Chris Korrow · March 6th, 2007, 01:34 PM

Is it best to make a self contained movie to bring into compressor?
Will that cut down on the render time?
Any suggestions for the blank DVDs for the master to be sent off for replication?
Any other useful tips for the best quality DVD master would be appreciated.
I'm sending off for 2500 DVDs & am just a tad bit nervous about it, especially since this will be my first DVD Studio project. (always just knocked something out quick in iDVD).

It's just SD at 52 minutes, chapter markers, but nothing else as far as special features.
Thanks in advance,
Chris

John Huling · March 6th, 2007, 02:50 PM

Chris from what I understand in my tutorials "self" is only required for HDV not SD. Unless you need to send the project to someone, it will just take longer to do a "self" than a "ref". hope that helps. Also, be sure to save to your "scratch disk", an external drive is recommended.

Rickey Brillantes · March 6th, 2007, 03:28 PM

Hi Chris!

I did the same project like yours just 6 weeks ago, I videotaped, edit, authored and sent it out for mass duplication, around 800 Dvd's duplicated, delivered and everything came out fine... as of this moment.

I would just like to share my work scenario for this might help you:

After done with my editing I export my project to quicktime movie, I did'nt export it directly to compressor, unchecking the movie self contained, then in Compressor I import the file and opened up in the batch monitor, I click the settings and choose Dvd best quality 120 minutes - 4:3 (I choose that because my project was more than an hour 1/2) since yours is less you can select 60 minutes.

Once highlighted I select all, and once loaded back to the batch monitor I select the AIFF and deleted it leaving the Dolby 2.0 and M-peg 2...

In Inspector in the video encoder I did a bit budgeting (64 devided by x) "x" is the amount of time, then when I was happy with my settings I click submit.

The first 50% of the progress report was fast because it was encoding the audio and the remaining which is the video took a long time a very long time... I took a coffee break and even a nap...Then.. when its done, it's time to go to DVDSP.

In DVDSP I designed my menus and added chapter marks (should have done it in FCP or Compressor) Then I click build not burn because I want to burn it using Roxio Popcorn so I can select the lower burning speed setting...I used 4x speed for it was the only lowest Dvd Media available at CompUSA. I match my burning speed to the media speed. Burning it to lower speed gives you a better chance for playback compatibility on Dvd players...After that I send all my Dvd masters to the duplication company...oh! one more thing I used Dvd-r media.

Well that's it! Hope this helps and Goodluck to you!

Rickey

Chris Korrow · March 6th, 2007, 04:37 PM

Great stuff, Thanks!!
Though that does bring up some more question.
First, the X speed of DVD media is just to say how fast it can be written, Right? Like a 16X can write at 16X but can also write at 4X for a better product. Is this not right???

2nd- Is the dolby 2.0 setting something that works with all my standard stereo audio from the project, in other words I don't have to build the project around a dolby format, that's done after the fact in compressor?

3rd- Will look it up, but what is the bit budgeting?

Thanks again,
Chris

Rickey Brillantes · March 6th, 2007, 05:08 PM

1. Match burning speed to the media speed always
2. Right!
3. Bit Budgeting is calculating how much space you need on your Dvd for all your assets. You do Bit budgeting to make sure everything fits.

Quality vs File Size:

The most important factor in figuring out how many assets you can place on a DVD-Video disc is to balance the data rate of the MPEG-2 streams with the capacity of the DVD-R disc. With lower bit rate movies (5.7Mbps), the file sizes of the streams are smaller and more content can be placed on a disc. With higher bit rate movies (9.8Mbps), the files sizes of the streams are larger, of higher quality, but less content can be placed on a disc.

Rickey

David Knaggs · March 6th, 2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Korrow

Is it best to make a self contained movie to bring into compressor?

Hi Chris.

On this single point, the answer is "no", if you want the highest quality result.

The reason is that when you export from FCP, it WILL apply a render in that codec when exporting - even in DV or other intra-frame codecs. I'd previously thought that it only did that with inter-frame codecs like HDV, but I just had a training DVD ("The Art of Encoding using Compressor" by Ripple Training) arrive 2 hours ago by post from the US and it goes over the nitty-gritty about what is really happening inside FCP, Quicktime and Compressor. Wow.

I obviously can't quote from it (as this is their livelihood) but my short answer is to avoid self-contained and even reference movies (which still bring in the render files with them) and export straight from your FCP timeline to Compressor.

That's if you want the VERY highest quality results.

John Huling · March 7th, 2007, 05:33 AM

David
I have the training from "Larry Jordan" of " www.larryjordan.biz "Apple's "go to" guy. I am not familiar with "Ripple". Do they know something we don't about "self" and "ref" movies made in QT? My understanding is that self or ref in DV makes no difference. And that you must do "self" in HDV. Why I am not sure. Maybe what they say is true. If you have more info I would be very interested to know.

Chris Korrow · March 7th, 2007, 09:32 AM

Thanks to all of you!
Very helpful.
I imagine that I'll be rendering for a good part of the day.
Peace,
Chris

David Knaggs · March 7th, 2007, 02:05 PM

Hi John.

I think it's very important to differentiate between "most expedient" workflow and "very best quality" workflow.

A lot of people like to export to Quicktime and then import to Compressor for one main reason: because they can then continue to use FCP while Compressor does the encoding job. The trade-off might be a slight hit on quality, but in the overall scheme of things, a number of people find this the most expedient way to work. It's perfectly okay by them and that's fine with me.

If someone asks, "what workflow gives the VERY best quality?" my answer is always "export directly to Compressor from the timeline." And that advice is not due to a training DVD which arrived yesterday. I've been giving that advice for months - based on practical experience and the evidence of my own eyes. The trade-off here is that the direct export to Compressor means that FCP will now be tied up with it and you can't use it for anything else until the encoding is finished.

So that's why some go with the expedient workflow (and keep working with FCP) and others like to go with the highest quality workflow. There's no totally right or wrong answer. It depends on each individual's needs and the requirements (or parameters) they're working under.

(And I definitely do not want to debate the merits of different training organizations. They're all great. Everyone should just pick the one that gives them the best results. And just use Google if you want to find more info about Ripple Training.)

Liam Hall · March 7th, 2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Huling

My understanding is that self or ref in DV makes no difference. And that you must do "self" in HDV. Why I am not sure. Maybe what they say is true. If you have more info I would be very interested to know.

It's an easy one to test. Just export and import a clip 4-5 times saving as a reference movie and then repeat the process saving as a self contained one.

It's a no brainer once you see the results.

Liam.

John Huling · March 8th, 2007, 06:12 AM

Thanks David and Liam
Thanks for your insight.Liam, Just to save me the time...what is the difference after 4-5 times? Aside from the extra time it takes to do a "self". Enjoyed your website by the way. Just a question Liam. Is the timing on your opening video off because of the nature of the web? I noticed a lag when the "kick drum" comes in. Having been involved with foley and music for film/video and the like for the last 25-30 years, one thing that seems to be overlooked is that the brain takes longer to hear something it than ones eyes do to see. That's why even though hits can take place right on an image cue, they usually don't sound/look right. An average of 22ms to as much as a full second ahead of the next cut works wonders. Years ago I was doing some music and sound for a lead in to a "grizzily bear" scene. An experienced foley guy pointed out that the bear growl needed to come in a full 1/2 sec early. It worked. Oh well sorry to be miles off subject. Really appreciated your advice.

David Scattergood · March 8th, 2007, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Having been involved with foley and music for film/video and the like for the last 25-30 years, one thing that seems to be overlooked is that the brain takes longer to hear something it than ones eyes do to see. That's why even though hits can take place right on an image cue, they usually don't sound/look right.
An average of 22ms to as much as a full second ahead of the next cut works wonders. Years ago I was doing some music and sound for a lead in to a "grizzily bear" scene. An experienced foley guy pointed out that the bear growl needed to come in a full 1/2 sec early. It worked. Oh well sorry to be miles off subject. Really appreciated your advice.

That's really interesting John (apologies for jumping on this thread). Something I'll definitely bear in mind (no pun intended).

Liam Hall · March 8th, 2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Huling

Thanks David and Liam
Thanks for your insight.Liam, Just to save me the time...what is the difference after 4-5 times?

Hi John,
You shouldn't notice any difference, so long as you don't check the re-compress box.

Quote:

Enjoyed your website by the way. Just a question Liam. Is the timing on your opening video off because of the nature of the web?

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it - the wonders of iweb (it amazes me that someone can build a program for html illiterate people like me), and yes you're right about the lag. Probably not a good idea to put a video that is so heavily cut-to-the-beat on the web (also, they were all encoded before I really understood anything about encoding). I'm going to redo all the video on the site, some time soon...

The original cuts fine, I'm with you on the ear/brain thing, and don't forget viewing distances, and the effect of dolby...

Cheers,

Liam.

Jeff Chandler · March 8th, 2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickey Brillantes

1. Match burning speed to the media speed always

This is not correct.
Media can be burned at lower than the maximum speed without any problems whatsoever. I frequently burn at 8x with 16x disks in runs of 100 or more and have never had a problem.

Rickey Brillantes · March 9th, 2007, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Chandler

This is not correct.
Media can be burned at lower than the maximum speed without any problems whatsoever. I frequently burn at 8x with 16x disks in runs of 100 or more and have never had a problem.

The media which is the Dvd disk has an organic dye that is contained inside the Dvd and it is design to have a hole burned in by a lazer, and if the Dvd spins over the lazer it expects the lazer to burn in a certain amount of time to cause that hole to burn in the organic dye.

If the disk instead of burning at 8x speed and rated for 8x speed turns around at 1x speed w/c is 8x slower, the hole that gets burned on organic dye is much larger cause the lazer on that spot is 8x longer than the disk is expecting.

Consequently, it's getting a big hole, maybe a hole that bleeds on to another track or into another pit that causes error.

March 6th, 2007, 01:34 PM	#1
Chris Korrow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whidbey Is, WA Posts: 326	DVD Studio/Compressor? Is it best to make a self contained movie to bring into compressor? Will that cut down on the render time? Any suggestions for the blank DVDs for the master to be sent off for replication? Any other useful tips for the best quality DVD master would be appreciated. I'm sending off for 2500 DVDs & am just a tad bit nervous about it, especially since this will be my first DVD Studio project. (always just knocked something out quick in iDVD). It's just SD at 52 minutes, chapter markers, but nothing else as far as special features. Thanks in advance, Chris

March 6th, 2007, 05:08 PM	#5
Rickey Brillantes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ontario, California Posts: 309	1. Match burning speed to the media speed always 2. Right! 3. Bit Budgeting is calculating how much space you need on your Dvd for all your assets. You do Bit budgeting to make sure everything fits. Quality vs File Size: The most important factor in figuring out how many assets you can place on a DVD-Video disc is to balance the data rate of the MPEG-2 streams with the capacity of the DVD-R disc. With lower bit rate movies (5.7Mbps), the file sizes of the streams are smaller and more content can be placed on a disc. With higher bit rate movies (9.8Mbps), the files sizes of the streams are larger, of higher quality, but less content can be placed on a disc. Rickey Last edited by Rickey Brillantes; March 6th, 2007 at 05:44 PM.

March 6th, 2007, 02:50 PM	#2
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Chris from what I understand in my tutorials "self" is only required for HDV not SD. Unless you need to send the project to someone, it will just take longer to do a "self" than a "ref". hope that helps. Also, be sure to save to your "scratch disk", an external drive is recommended.

March 6th, 2007, 03:28 PM	#3
Rickey Brillantes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ontario, California Posts: 309	Hi Chris! I did the same project like yours just 6 weeks ago, I videotaped, edit, authored and sent it out for mass duplication, around 800 Dvd's duplicated, delivered and everything came out fine... as of this moment. I would just like to share my work scenario for this might help you: After done with my editing I export my project to quicktime movie, I did'nt export it directly to compressor, unchecking the movie self contained, then in Compressor I import the file and opened up in the batch monitor, I click the settings and choose Dvd best quality 120 minutes - 4:3 (I choose that because my project was more than an hour 1/2) since yours is less you can select 60 minutes. Once highlighted I select all, and once loaded back to the batch monitor I select the AIFF and deleted it leaving the Dolby 2.0 and M-peg 2... In Inspector in the video encoder I did a bit budgeting (64 devided by x) "x" is the amount of time, then when I was happy with my settings I click submit. The first 50% of the progress report was fast because it was encoding the audio and the remaining which is the video took a long time a very long time... I took a coffee break and even a nap...Then.. when its done, it's time to go to DVDSP. In DVDSP I designed my menus and added chapter marks (should have done it in FCP or Compressor) Then I click build not burn because I want to burn it using Roxio Popcorn so I can select the lower burning speed setting...I used 4x speed for it was the only lowest Dvd Media available at CompUSA. I match my burning speed to the media speed. Burning it to lower speed gives you a better chance for playback compatibility on Dvd players...After that I send all my Dvd masters to the duplication company...oh! one more thing I used Dvd-r media. Well that's it! Hope this helps and Goodluck to you! Rickey

March 6th, 2007, 04:37 PM	#4
Chris Korrow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whidbey Is, WA Posts: 326	Great stuff, Thanks!! Though that does bring up some more question. First, the X speed of DVD media is just to say how fast it can be written, Right? Like a 16X can write at 16X but can also write at 4X for a better product. Is this not right??? 2nd- Is the dolby 2.0 setting something that works with all my standard stereo audio from the project, in other words I don't have to build the project around a dolby format, that's done after the fact in compressor? 3rd- Will look it up, but what is the bit budgeting? Thanks again, Chris

March 7th, 2007, 05:33 AM	#7
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	David I have the training from "Larry Jordan" of " www.larryjordan.biz "Apple's "go to" guy. I am not familiar with "Ripple". Do they know something we don't about "self" and "ref" movies made in QT? My understanding is that self or ref in DV makes no difference. And that you must do "self" in HDV. Why I am not sure. Maybe what they say is true. If you have more info I would be very interested to know.

March 7th, 2007, 09:32 AM	#8
Chris Korrow Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whidbey Is, WA Posts: 326	Thanks to all of you! Very helpful. I imagine that I'll be rendering for a good part of the day. Peace, Chris

March 7th, 2007, 02:05 PM	#9
David Knaggs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 826	Hi John. I think it's very important to differentiate between "most expedient" workflow and "very best quality" workflow. A lot of people like to export to Quicktime and then import to Compressor for one main reason: because they can then continue to use FCP while Compressor does the encoding job. The trade-off might be a slight hit on quality, but in the overall scheme of things, a number of people find this the most expedient way to work. It's perfectly okay by them and that's fine with me. If someone asks, "what workflow gives the VERY best quality?" my answer is always "export directly to Compressor from the timeline." And that advice is not due to a training DVD which arrived yesterday. I've been giving that advice for months - based on practical experience and the evidence of my own eyes. The trade-off here is that the direct export to Compressor means that FCP will now be tied up with it and you can't use it for anything else until the encoding is finished. So that's why some go with the expedient workflow (and keep working with FCP) and others like to go with the highest quality workflow. There's no totally right or wrong answer. It depends on each individual's needs and the requirements (or parameters) they're working under. (And I definitely do not want to debate the merits of different training organizations. They're all great. Everyone should just pick the one that gives them the best results. And just use Google if you want to find more info about Ripple Training.)

March 8th, 2007, 06:12 AM	#11
John Huling Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 172	Thanks David and Liam Thanks for your insight.Liam, Just to save me the time...what is the difference after 4-5 times? Aside from the extra time it takes to do a "self". Enjoyed your website by the way. Just a question Liam. Is the timing on your opening video off because of the nature of the web? I noticed a lag when the "kick drum" comes in. Having been involved with foley and music for film/video and the like for the last 25-30 years, one thing that seems to be overlooked is that the brain takes longer to hear something it than ones eyes do to see. That's why even though hits can take place right on an image cue, they usually don't sound/look right. An average of 22ms to as much as a full second ahead of the next cut works wonders. Years ago I was doing some music and sound for a lead in to a "grizzily bear" scene. An experienced foley guy pointed out that the bear growl needed to come in a full 1/2 sec early. It worked. Oh well sorry to be miles off subject. Really appreciated your advice.