HDV editing w/FCP, importing creates new clip on s/s detect

[Jim Fields]

I shoot HDV with my JVC camera (HD110U)
I import 720P30 and edit in HDV with FCP.

However, during import, FCP will create a new clip on each start/stop dection during the importing process. So instead of "Hood Wedding tape 1 ceremony" I get Hood Wedding tape 1 ceremony -1, -2, -3, etc.

I have the box unchecked in the capture window for "create new clip on start stop dect" and it still does it.

How do I stop this?

I have poured over FCP in all ways possible. I have looked at every menu on the camera. I have even attempted to import SD (it wont let me) I have tried different codecs, I have tried "non controlable device (it wont let me)

How? please tell me there is a way to stop this.

[Shane Ross]

YOu are doing nothing wrong...this is the nature of HDV. Because it isn't playing back regular frames, but rather Groups of Pictures (GOPs) all scrambled together, everytime the camera stops, there is a break in the image flow and FCP makes it a new clip. As far as I know, there is no way to stop this. Other than to capture HDV as another format via a capture card.

Natively, it will do this. Again...the nature of HDV. Shoots a great picture, but is a mess to deal with in post.

[Hugh Walton]

Originally Posted by Jim Fields

I shoot HDV with my JVC camera (HD110U)
I import 720P30 and edit in HDV with FCP.

However, during import, FCP will create a new clip on each start/stop dection during the importing process. So instead of "Hood Wedding tape 1 ceremony" I get Hood Wedding tape 1 ceremony -1, -2, -3, etc.

I have the box unchecked in the capture window for "create new clip on start stop dect" and it still does it.

How do I stop this?

I have poured over FCP in all ways possible. I have looked at every menu on the camera. I have even attempted to import SD (it wont let me) I have tried different codecs, I have tried "non controlable device (it wont let me)

How? please tell me there is a way to stop this.

I have just purchased the Canon XH-A1 (first HDV camera) and have been having the same issue. From what I understand of HDV encoding the explanation by Shane Ross (above) is correct. It seems that whenever I select an in or out point that lands in the middle of the tapes GOP structure Final Cut automatically saves any footage that may have been missed during capture as a new clip (Clip 1-1, 2-2, etc.).

As you may know when an HDV camera records to tape it uses Mpeg2 compression using a GOP structure (Group of Pictures). Depending on the manufacturer, the length of the GOP may differ, but the total number of pictures usually is somewhere around 15. This is why if the tape drops in HDV you don't just loose 1 frame (DV), but approximately 15 or half a second of footage at a time (HDV).

Until the camera manufacturing companies discover a less expensive method for recording HD to solid state media the most seductive option is HDV in my opinion. The recording format has a number of short comings (this is one of them), but for the time being I am more than happy to deal with them.

Hugh

[Hugh Walton]

I wish I could help. Not owning or ever having used the JVC puts me at a disadvantage. I have a few ideas, but you have probably already tried them. If you let me know more about what you have done (ie. camera settings, ect.) I might be able to help. I also take it that this is the first time you have used the JVC with Final Cut (what version?).

Hugh

[Scott Anderson]

I was exploring this very issue yesterday for a student of mine. Only his problem was that the automatic scene break stopped working! I don't think it's an issue of HDV, so much as the settings in the HDV Capture window:

(EDIT: here's my original email to my student)
After doing a few pointed Google searches, I came up with the following post on another forum:
http://www.geniusdv.com/avid-fcp//read.php?1,6368,6385

One of the posts says, in part:
"You will notice that when working in an HDV capture window, the capture window looks different. In the Clip Settings tab, you can turn off 'Create new clip on Start/Stop' if want."

I then found a picture of the HDV Capture window:
http://www.macworld.com/2005/07/imag...loghdv_big.jpg

Now, I can't get an HDV Capture window on FCP because I don't have an HDV device, but hook up your camera, launch Log & Capture, and go to the Clip Settings tab. See if there's a 'Create new clip on Start/Stop' setting you can try.

Also, make sure you're in HDV mode first. We were in DV mode in the classroom when we did the Mark>DV Start/Stop Detect (EDIT: this was with my student's Z1U, which can downsample in hardware to DV - thus your past ability to capture into a DV project). I don't even know if Mark>DV Start/Stop Detect works for HDV material. Also, if you go into Easy Setup, you only have one choice - HDV. If, instead, you into Audio/Video Settings, and pulldown Capture Presents, you get 2 choices: HDV and HDV -Apple Intermediate Codec. As I understand it, capturing straight HDV works like DV - the file is not recompressed upon capture. But since HDV is an MPEG-2 codec, and FCP then has to reconstuct single frames out of several MPEG-2 frames, it can play havoc with performance and especially render times. By capturing to the Apple Intermediate Codec, FCP recompresses your clips into an I-frame codec, so each frame is discrete. Supposedly this speeds up rendering alot. I have no idea about how these presets affect capturing, so you'll have to play around.

Good luck!

[Jim Fields]

Originally Posted by Hugh Walton

I wish I could help. Not owning or ever having used the JVC puts me at a disadvantage. I have a few ideas, but you have probably already tried them. If you let me know more about what you have done (ie. camera settings, ect.) I might be able to help. I also take it that this is the first time you have used the JVC with Final Cut (what version?).

Hugh

I have changed the camera's tc settings, I have tried flipping the switch on the backside that lets me choose dv/hdv, I have tried different formats ie; uncontrollable device, AIC, etc

I have tried it all.

Looks like I am stuck doing it that way, or find another way to import footage so that 1 tape=1 file, not 1 tape= 120 files.

[Hugh Walton]

There are a couple of thing you said in your post above that I disagree with. The first "Also, if you go into Easy Setup, you only have one choice - HDV." When you goto the Easy Setup menu you will find a number of HDV settings (1080i50, 100i60, 1080p24). I think you meant to say that there are only 2 Capture Presets (HDV and HDV with Apple Intermediate Codec).

The second "But since HDV is an MPEG-2 codec, and FCP then has to reconstuct single frames out of several MPEG-2 frames, it can play havoc with performance and especially render times." The newest version of Final Cut (5.1.2) has been updated to deal with these issues of performance. Editing raw HDV in Final Cut is no longer a problem and does not "play havoc with performance and especially render times." anymore.

The third "By capturing to the Apple Intermediate Codec, FCP recompresses your clips into an I-frame codec, so each frame is discrete. Supposedly this speeds up rendering alot." Again this was the case with Final Cut 5.1, but with version 5.1.2 there is no need to transcode your footage. It is always better to leave your footage as is and not to transcode if possible. Final Cut now does a great with the raw HDV footage right off the tape.

Just thought I would throw in my two cents.

Hugh

[Jim Fields]

Hugh.

I just did my 5.1.3 update, and even though I have not imported yet, are you telling me that "raw hdv support" means m2t files will go directly into the timeline? ( I just checked, and unless there is a way to do it, then no it did not work)

Anyway, point is, there has got to be a way to either bypass log and capture completely, or some way for us JVC HD110 users to not have to deal with multiple clips.

I taught by an old school editor, ie: I use the keyboaerd, I toggle between my viewer and timelline to cut a project, I dont touch a mouse and when I have to do HDV projects shot with my camera it just slows me down. This is more of a convinience thing for me, but I am sure there are more people who would like the same thing i do. What other ways are there to import HDV from my camera so I can have a single file?.

[Don Ward]

I'm a noob, but last night I captured some HDV footage from my new backup camera (Canon HV30) and I did "capture now" and to my surprise it did not scene detect? Reason...I haven't set the date or time on the camera is my guess. I may see if I can reset my A1 to no date and time so I can capture full tapes w/o scene detect.

[Justin Ferar]

I have both Canon A1's and JVC GY-HD200's.

As of right now FCP will not digitize JVC HDV (720p24/30/60) tapes as one clip even if you have the setting to ignore clip breaks checked. Why they can't fix this I really have no idea. Personally I prefer one clip.

The Canon does digitize as one clip so everything works like good ol' DV.

If you are willing to invest some cash then there is a way to digitize JVC HDV as one clip. You need the BR-HD50 deck and an Intensity Pro card from Black Magic. You just digitize the HDMI signal and use RS422 for deck control- works fine. The main drawback is that you must digitize as ProRez, which takes up way more space than HDV.

[William Hohauser]

Skip the card and capture directly to ProRes by FireWire. It works in 720p on my old G5 and has a small bit of FireWire deck control (starts a deck paused where you want the capture to start).

[Justin Ferar]

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

Skip the card and capture directly to ProRes by FireWire. It works in 720p on my old G5 and has a small bit of FireWire deck control (starts a deck paused where you want the capture to start).

William- do you get time-code as well?

[Christopher Drews]

I second the fact, that if this project is important, spend a little bit of cash and rent a HDV deck. Most have RS422 for TC and most have SDI/AES digital output. This usually dithers your footage and you'll ditch long GOP all together if you go Pro-Res (and gain more color latitude if you use CC).
Hope this helps,
-C

[William Hohauser]

Originally Posted by Justin Ferar

William- do you get time-code as well?

Sure do.

However, even when capturing directly to ProRes, tapes with bad drop-out issues will break into smaller clips but not like standard HDV capture where you get breaks with no visible drop-out.

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Justin Ferar

William- do you get time-code as well?

In my edit bay, using FCP 6.0.3 under OS10.4.11, I capture JVC HDV720P60 to ProRes422 720P60 and SOMETIMES the timecode stays intact, other times it doesn't. Haven't figured out what triggers FCP to "lose" the timecode information.