XH A1 Capture Problem with FCP at DVinfo.net

Jamie Krutz · January 23rd, 2007, 06:25 PM

I had an XH A1 not be recognized over firewire by a PowerMac dual 2.5GHZ G5, OSX 10.4.8, using the latest Final Cut Pro set up correctly for HDV capture. I also tested it at several frame rates and shooting DV mode. At one point I was able to get it to be recognized but still not controlled for batch capture, so I made do with "capture now" and got the show edited. Whew!

After I ran the problem by Canon who said they'd have to look at the camera, Scott (at site sponsor Tapeworks Texas) offered to send a replacement without my even asking. That's great support, huge thanks to Scott and Dontae at Tapeworks Texas for being there when it counts!

Unfortunately, the replacement XH A1 camera had the same symptoms. Meanwhile my Panasonic DVX100 did not have problems being recognized by FCP (configured for DV of course). Weird.

So I thought about what else I could try. I use a very dependable MOTU 828MII firewire audio interface. It's connected directly to the Mac in the rear firewire port. I connect the cameras directly to the Mac using the front firewire port.

Just in case there might be some sort of conflict, I turned the MOTU 828MII off. Both Canon cameras were then recognized and controlled by FCP for some simple capture tests. I turned the 828MII back on and the cameras were not recognized. Wow!

I called in a report with Canon tech support on the problem. It could be an Apple problem, it could be a MOTU problem and it could be a Canon problem. However, because my Panasonic camera works fine with the 828MII turned on using the same computer running the same installation of FCP, I suspect something may be amiss with the XH A1 firewire interaction. Because I've now seen two XH A1 cameras show the problem, it may be out there on other cameras.

If they can identify the reason in the XH A1 for the problem, hopefully Canon will provide a fix for a firmware update. Meanwhile I will have to turn off the 828MII when capturing via firewire. That's a better workaround than using "Capture Now," at least, but it's not ideal.

Perhaps this experience will help someone else. Has anyone else had capture problems with the XH A1? If so, can you make it work by turning off other equipment connected via firewire on the same computer?

Best Regards,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Dave Halliday · January 23rd, 2007, 08:16 PM

My A1 won't do "Batch capture" under FCP. It keeps telling me there are "timecode" breaks even though there are NO dropouts and it was a press conference--I just hit record once and that's it! It's really starting to bug. I'm tried everything. But I had to just capture now the whole thing. anybody else have this problem?

Kevin Myhre · January 24th, 2007, 06:51 AM

Yep I've had nothing but problems trying to capture to my macbook pro. It's like it has a mind of it's own. Some times it recognizes it and I can controll the camera other times I have to use capture now. Other times it doesn't even recognize that it's plugged into my computer. I have a feeling it's a mac problem seeing I've heard people have had lots of problems with the firewire on them. but just my guess

Dave Halliday · January 24th, 2007, 08:14 AM

Hey all, could you please post a follow up to Kevin's and my posts if you are running FCP on a MacBook or MacBook Pro? Even (especially!) if things work for you. I'm running FCP 5.1.2 on a MacBook Pro with 2 GB RAM.

I'm REALLY struggling with the batch capture issues. Like Kevin said, it seems to have a mind of it's own. It keeps telling me there are "timecode breaks" but when I did "capture now" and ingested the footage, I looked by through it and there are no timecode breaks or dropouts.

Jamie Krutz · January 24th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Do you guys have anything except the A1 connected to firewire on your Mac laptops?

If so, try disconnecting everything else except the camera and let us know if that works any better for you.

What I'm trying to find out in this thread is if anyone else is seeing problems with camera communications over firewire when more than one peripheral is connected to the computer via firewire.

And if so, if disconnecting or powering down other firewire peripherals helped your camera situation, like it did here.

It would also be good to hear from people using other computers and editing programs. I just happen to be using a G5 and fcp but I'm curious to know if possible firewire conflicts are occurring on other systems as well.

Thanks,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Rick Sharf · January 24th, 2007, 02:57 PM

i have a macbook pro with the latest version of FCP and im gettin the same problem as you guys. When i capture with just the camera connected or running though my hard drive i have the same symptoms. Its hit and miss, sometimes i will be able to connect the camera and it operates fine. Batch capture, capture now and device control work great, and then suddenly it decides to stop working. I have no idea what is going on, sometimes restarting the computer helps but most times i have to wait an hour or two before i can get the camera to read in FCP.

could it be something with the vcr mode in the camera?

Kaku Ito · January 24th, 2007, 07:07 PM

In my case with HV10 batch capture, it stops in the middle or even whole application quits unexpectedly with capturing on the external RAID, but it does fine with firewire drive or internal RAID. Also, I have the MOTU UltraLite connected and being on all the time. The machine is Mac Pro by the way.
Also, anyone confirmed that the firewire on the front panel is problematic than the ones in the back panel?

Jamie Krutz · January 24th, 2007, 09:40 PM

Kaku, I tried switching the camera and MOTU to opposite Firewire ports and it made no difference which one was in which port on my G5.

Have you tried turning your MOTU off or disconnecting it when capturing footage? That's what made the A1 work here.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Stefano Folgaria · January 25th, 2007, 05:00 PM

I would not recommend to use batch capture with any kind of camera.
That kind of capture use so intensively all the mechanism and the camera has been done for shooting, not for been used from outside commands that stops, rewinds, forwards, pauses...
Just capture now the whole tape, than you can choose what you like and with Media Manager you can copy just the clips you want, erasing then the whole first capture.
Leave your camera live a lot!!

Kevin Myhre · January 26th, 2007, 09:04 AM

I don't have anything else pluged into my macbook pro when this happens. Like I said it works when it feels like it. The only thing I've found to fix it at least for a little while is to shut it down, un-plug the power and take out the battery for about ten minutes then it seems to work again, sometimes

Jamie Krutz · January 26th, 2007, 07:22 PM

For everyone having problems with your powerbooks, does your camera communicate and capture without problems when using other computers?

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

PS. Stefano, please feel free to avoid batch capture on your system. However it's a very handy feature which is why it's supported by editing systems and cameras, and it certainly should work reliably. We're trying to narrow down why it doesn't always work reliably in this thread.

PPS. Chris, this is your playground so you can of course moderate posts wherever you like. However, I respectfully disagree that only one end of the firewire cable matters. Both ends matter, and in this case, two different Canon XH A1s have problems where a different camera (on the same end of the same cable connected to the same system) does not have problems. It would be very useful to know if that's happening with the XH A1 and other computers and editing software also, because that would help narrow down the possible causes. But putting the thread here means users of other editing systems won't see it or contribute comments. If you can see your way clear to opening up the other thread back on the A1 forum I'd sure appreciate it. It is, of course, your call. In the meantime I'll check back with Canon tech support next week and see what they've been able to discover. This is an amazing camera...just trying to troubleshoot this strange communications glitch.

Piotr Wozniacki · January 26th, 2007, 10:53 PM

I'm in the PC world, but I have noticed that my capturing app would not take audio when any other application using the audio interface is open. Perhaps you have a similar situation?

Kaku Ito · January 28th, 2007, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Krutz

Kaku, I tried switching the camera and MOTU to opposite Firewire ports and it made no difference which one was in which port on my G5.

Have you tried turning your MOTU off or disconnecting it when capturing footage? That's what made the A1 work here.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

Jamie,

I meant that I have no problems with Ultralite upon capturing.
I only have problems with batch capture with eSATA RAID on certain project.

Also, Stefano, I capture the whole tape when I edit for the first time, but sometimes you have to trash the captured media because of the disk space or your raid crashed (this was my case but thank goodness I save the project to firewire drives all the time) then use the project to batch capture.
Also, for the wear and tear, that is the reason why I have HV10.

James R. Leong · February 3rd, 2007, 09:35 PM

I can capture SD from the XH-A1 in FCP 5.1.2 but no HDV. It recognizes the camera and controls the device, but no preview or capture with HDV. Yet using HDVXDV, it captures HDV in 24p and 60i OK. Unfortunately, it saves m2t files which have to be converted!

What settings are you using to get HDV into FCP?

I'm using 1080p 24, HDV firewire basic NDF.

Charlie Renideo · December 26th, 2007, 08:45 PM

I have recently upgraded to FCP 6 and purchased a new G-Tech Raid2 (1Tb). I have a 2.7GHz mac G5, OS 10.4.11. When I have the G-Tech Raid drive connected via firewire 800 and my Canon GL2 connected via firewire 400 FCP will not open, but FCP will open with either the G-tech drive or the GL2 connected (and the other disconnected).
Contacted Apple support they believe after testing various connections that there is a firewire conflict with the G-tech drive.
I have not heard for G-tech tech support yet.

January 23rd, 2007, 06:25 PM	#1
Jamie Krutz New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 15	XH A1 Capture Problem with FCP I had an XH A1 not be recognized over firewire by a PowerMac dual 2.5GHZ G5, OSX 10.4.8, using the latest Final Cut Pro set up correctly for HDV capture. I also tested it at several frame rates and shooting DV mode. At one point I was able to get it to be recognized but still not controlled for batch capture, so I made do with "capture now" and got the show edited. Whew! After I ran the problem by Canon who said they'd have to look at the camera, Scott (at site sponsor Tapeworks Texas) offered to send a replacement without my even asking. That's great support, huge thanks to Scott and Dontae at Tapeworks Texas for being there when it counts! Unfortunately, the replacement XH A1 camera had the same symptoms. Meanwhile my Panasonic DVX100 did not have problems being recognized by FCP (configured for DV of course). Weird. So I thought about what else I could try. I use a very dependable MOTU 828MII firewire audio interface. It's connected directly to the Mac in the rear firewire port. I connect the cameras directly to the Mac using the front firewire port. Just in case there might be some sort of conflict, I turned the MOTU 828MII off. Both Canon cameras were then recognized and controlled by FCP for some simple capture tests. I turned the 828MII back on and the cameras were not recognized. Wow! I called in a report with Canon tech support on the problem. It could be an Apple problem, it could be a MOTU problem and it could be a Canon problem. However, because my Panasonic camera works fine with the 828MII turned on using the same computer running the same installation of FCP, I suspect something may be amiss with the XH A1 firewire interaction. Because I've now seen two XH A1 cameras show the problem, it may be out there on other cameras. If they can identify the reason in the XH A1 for the problem, hopefully Canon will provide a fix for a firmware update. Meanwhile I will have to turn off the 828MII when capturing via firewire. That's a better workaround than using "Capture Now," at least, but it's not ideal. Perhaps this experience will help someone else. Has anyone else had capture problems with the XH A1? If so, can you make it work by turning off other equipment connected via firewire on the same computer? Best Regards, -Jamie www.JamieKrutz.com Last edited by Jamie Krutz; January 23rd, 2007 at 09:52 PM.

January 24th, 2007, 11:53 AM	#5
Jamie Krutz New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 15	Do you guys have anything except the A1 connected to firewire on your Mac laptops? If so, try disconnecting everything else except the camera and let us know if that works any better for you. What I'm trying to find out in this thread is if anyone else is seeing problems with camera communications over firewire when more than one peripheral is connected to the computer via firewire. And if so, if disconnecting or powering down other firewire peripherals helped your camera situation, like it did here. It would also be good to hear from people using other computers and editing programs. I just happen to be using a G5 and fcp but I'm curious to know if possible firewire conflicts are occurring on other systems as well. Thanks, -Jamie www.JamieKrutz.com Last edited by Jamie Krutz; January 24th, 2007 at 05:42 PM.

January 24th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#7
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	In my case with HV10 In my case with HV10 batch capture, it stops in the middle or even whole application quits unexpectedly with capturing on the external RAID, but it does fine with firewire drive or internal RAID. Also, I have the MOTU UltraLite connected and being on all the time. The machine is Mac Pro by the way. Also, anyone confirmed that the firewire on the front panel is problematic than the ones in the back panel?

January 25th, 2007, 05:00 PM	#9
Stefano Folgaria Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 36	I would not recommend to use batch capture with any kind of camera. That kind of capture use so intensively all the mechanism and the camera has been done for shooting, not for been used from outside commands that stops, rewinds, forwards, pauses... Just capture now the whole tape, than you can choose what you like and with Media Manager you can copy just the clips you want, erasing then the whole first capture. Leave your camera live a lot!! __________________ Canon, Nikon and Apple.. the right Team!

February 3rd, 2007, 09:35 PM	#14
James R. Leong Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada Posts: 81	I can capture SD from the XH-A1 in FCP 5.1.2 but no HDV. It recognizes the camera and controls the device, but no preview or capture with HDV. Yet using HDVXDV, it captures HDV in 24p and 60i OK. Unfortunately, it saves m2t files which have to be converted! What settings are you using to get HDV into FCP? I'm using 1080p 24, HDV firewire basic NDF. Last edited by James R. Leong; February 4th, 2007 at 12:45 AM.

January 23rd, 2007, 08:16 PM	#2
Dave Halliday Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 116	My A1 won't do "Batch capture" under FCP. It keeps telling me there are "timecode" breaks even though there are NO dropouts and it was a press conference--I just hit record once and that's it! It's really starting to bug. I'm tried everything. But I had to just capture now the whole thing. anybody else have this problem?

January 24th, 2007, 06:51 AM	#3
Kevin Myhre Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rochester MN Posts: 68	Yep I've had nothing but problems trying to capture to my macbook pro. It's like it has a mind of it's own. Some times it recognizes it and I can controll the camera other times I have to use capture now. Other times it doesn't even recognize that it's plugged into my computer. I have a feeling it's a mac problem seeing I've heard people have had lots of problems with the firewire on them. but just my guess

January 24th, 2007, 08:14 AM	#4
Dave Halliday Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 116	Hey all, could you please post a follow up to Kevin's and my posts if you are running FCP on a MacBook or MacBook Pro? Even (especially!) if things work for you. I'm running FCP 5.1.2 on a MacBook Pro with 2 GB RAM. I'm REALLY struggling with the batch capture issues. Like Kevin said, it seems to have a mind of it's own. It keeps telling me there are "timecode breaks" but when I did "capture now" and ingested the footage, I looked by through it and there are no timecode breaks or dropouts.

January 24th, 2007, 02:57 PM	#6
Rick Sharf New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 17	i have a macbook pro with the latest version of FCP and im gettin the same problem as you guys. When i capture with just the camera connected or running though my hard drive i have the same symptoms. Its hit and miss, sometimes i will be able to connect the camera and it operates fine. Batch capture, capture now and device control work great, and then suddenly it decides to stop working. I have no idea what is going on, sometimes restarting the computer helps but most times i have to wait an hour or two before i can get the camera to read in FCP. could it be something with the vcr mode in the camera?

January 24th, 2007, 09:40 PM	#8
Jamie Krutz New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 15	Kaku, I tried switching the camera and MOTU to opposite Firewire ports and it made no difference which one was in which port on my G5. Have you tried turning your MOTU off or disconnecting it when capturing footage? That's what made the A1 work here. Cheers, -Jamie www.JamieKrutz.com

January 26th, 2007, 09:04 AM	#10
Kevin Myhre Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rochester MN Posts: 68	I don't have anything else pluged into my macbook pro when this happens. Like I said it works when it feels like it. The only thing I've found to fix it at least for a little while is to shut it down, un-plug the power and take out the battery for about ten minutes then it seems to work again, sometimes

January 26th, 2007, 07:22 PM	#11
Jamie Krutz New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 15	For everyone having problems with your powerbooks, does your camera communicate and capture without problems when using other computers? Cheers, -Jamie www.JamieKrutz.com PS. Stefano, please feel free to avoid batch capture on your system. However it's a very handy feature which is why it's supported by editing systems and cameras, and it certainly should work reliably. We're trying to narrow down why it doesn't always work reliably in this thread. PPS. Chris, this is your playground so you can of course moderate posts wherever you like. However, I respectfully disagree that only one end of the firewire cable matters. Both ends matter, and in this case, two different Canon XH A1s have problems where a different camera (on the same end of the same cable connected to the same system) does not have problems. It would be very useful to know if that's happening with the XH A1 and other computers and editing software also, because that would help narrow down the possible causes. But putting the thread here means users of other editing systems won't see it or contribute comments. If you can see your way clear to opening up the other thread back on the A1 forum I'd sure appreciate it. It is, of course, your call. In the meantime I'll check back with Canon tech support next week and see what they've been able to discover. This is an amazing camera...just trying to troubleshoot this strange communications glitch.

January 26th, 2007, 10:53 PM	#12
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	I'm in the PC world, but I have noticed that my capturing app would not take audio when any other application using the audio interface is open. Perhaps you have a similar situation?

December 26th, 2007, 08:45 PM	#15
Charlie Renideo Tourist Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wasilla, Alaska Posts: 1	Firewire conflict with a GL2 and G-tech raid on mac G5 I have recently upgraded to FCP 6 and purchased a new G-Tech Raid2 (1Tb). I have a 2.7GHz mac G5, OS 10.4.11. When I have the G-Tech Raid drive connected via firewire 800 and my Canon GL2 connected via firewire 400 FCP will not open, but FCP will open with either the G-tech drive or the GL2 connected (and the other disconnected). Contacted Apple support they believe after testing various connections that there is a firewire conflict with the G-tech drive. I have not heard for G-tech tech support yet.