Interesting question about editing HD/previewing SD at DVinfo.net

Nick Weeks · January 15th, 2007, 08:15 AM

Soon, I will be purchasing two of the new canon A1s, and the HV10 to use as a deck, and possible 3rd cam when needed.

I know its not possible to preview HD through firewire like we currently do with an SD camera. NOTE - I'm using FCP 5.1.2.

-- My question is, can I capture and edit my entire project in 24F HD using Final Cut Pro, and then preview my HD project using the firewire camera connected to an SD monitor (the HV10)?

I know its a long-shot, but I figured someone might have tried.

Thanks for the input.

Shane Ross · January 16th, 2007, 12:14 AM

No. And this is because of the format you are shooting, HDV. HDV does not allow previewing of ANY kind via firewire.

HOWEVER, if you get a Matrox MXO (www.matrox.com), you can. not only can you downconvert your HD footage to an SD monitor, you can turn your Apple 23" display into a fully functional HD COLOR CORRECTION monitor.

Sweet box for only $999.

Boyd Ostroff · January 16th, 2007, 08:58 AM

I agree, the MXO looks like a really interesting product and a clever design (it uses the DVI port on your graphics card, and some special drivers to insure that you're getting a color accurate image).

Have you actually used one Shane? If so, does it live up to the promises? I read a very positive review in DV magazine last month.

Greg Boston · January 16th, 2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

HOWEVER, if you get a Matrox MXO (www.matrox.com), you can. not only can you downconvert your HD footage to an SD monitor, you can turn your Apple 23" display into a fully functional HD COLOR CORRECTION monitor.

Sweet box for only $999.

We just got a demo of this box at this month's FCPUG meeting. And as Shane says, it converts RGB color space to YUV, allowing you to get a fairly good color corrected signal to your Apple display.

-gb-

Greg Boston · January 16th, 2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

(it uses the DVI port on your graphics card, and some special drivers to insure that you're getting a color accurate image).

It has another DVI port trick... embedded audio. Using the RCA jacks on the unit will allow you to feed monitors that will be in sync with the video. If you try to monitor directly out of the Mac, your audio would lead due to latency of processing video out of the MXO.

-gb-

Shane Ross · January 16th, 2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

Have you actually used one Shane? If so, does it live up to the promises? I read a very positive review in DV magazine last month.

I wsa skeptical. Just like you I thought there is NO WAY this box can turn a computer display into a color correction HD monitor. Nice claim, but Nuh uh.

Then I saw it. Now I'm a believer.

I worked in a booth at MacWorld for CalDigit, and Wayne Andrews (product manager) from Matrox was in the booth with me, demoing the unit. There, on display, was a $5000 LCD HD color correction from Panasonic, and an Apple 23" display...both being fed by the MXO. And the image on both was identical.

I am getting a unit to review and test on my own. To compare the Apple 23" display and my HD CRT monitor. But I can say that I am convinced that this is the perfect solution for inexpensive monitoring of HD footage.

Rich Dykmans · January 16th, 2007, 08:15 PM

After seeing the Matrox demo at Macworld and talking with Wayne (I guess you weren't there when I dropped by Shane) I placed my order and received it today.

Seeing an identical image on both a 20" ACD and a Panny 1700 sold me! That's not something you can fake.

Shane Ross · January 16th, 2007, 08:41 PM

Darn it Rich...probably one of my few excursions across the room, or a lunch break.

But yes, Wayne's demo sold me too. If I didn't already own a Kona LH, that is.

Johan Forssblad · January 17th, 2007, 05:03 AM

Hi, great news for economical color correction. Do you need a special monitor to make the color reproduction accurate or is there a special procedure to calibrate? Different LCD use to look very differently so how is this done?

Rich Dykmans · January 17th, 2007, 08:16 AM

I calibrate my ACD 23" with an Eye-one. Evidently the MXO will load the LUT from that calibration and use it during the process which leads to more accurate color. Even though hadware calibration isn't mandtory, according to Wayne it makes the MXO's color reproduction better.

James Collinson · January 17th, 2007, 07:43 PM

Thank goodness I found this thread! Sounds like the answer to all my budget problems! Thank you DVinfo!!

Chris Gorman · January 30th, 2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

. . .I am getting a unit to review and test on my own. To compare the Apple 23" display and my HD CRT monitor. But I can say that I am convinced that this is the perfect solution for inexpensive monitoring of HD footage.

Besides the color accuracy, how about other factors like motion artifacts, etc. I don't yet own the ACD or MXO to test, but the refresh rate on the ACD is slow according to the specs and I "think" this causes softening or other distortions on camera moves, doesn't it? Does the MXO solve that problem?

When you evaluate the ACD 23" and MXO next to your HD CRT, could you give some feedback about that?

Rich Dykmans · January 30th, 2007, 10:50 PM

The MXO get's rid of the interlace artifacts when played back to an Apple 23". Motion artifacts, since they are inherent in the video itself are only minimized somewhat (again probably due to the frame blending the MXO does.)

The overall look of the video out of the MXO is still cleaner to me on my 17" video LCD then the ACD when I compare the 2 monitors but I believe that's due to the fact that the video LCD is lower resolution and benefits from the picture being scaled down.

It's noteworthy that the MXO demo at Macworld featured an Apple 20" next to a Panasonic LH1700W and given their similar size screens and fairly similar resolutions it was very hard to see any apparent differences in either color or overall video quality.

Short of a decklink or Kona there isn't really a better way to see your video in full quality / RT then the MXO IMHO.

Chris Gorman · January 30th, 2007, 11:18 PM

[QUOTE=Rich Dykmans]The MXO get's rid of the interlace artifacts when played back to an Apple 23". Motion artifacts, since they are inherent in the video itself are only minimized somewhat (again probably due to the frame blending the MXO does.)

I wouldn't want any motion artifacts "inherent in the video" to be minimized. My purpose is the evaulate accurately the video quality so I don't want to disguise any defects. Importantly, I also don't want the monitor or configuration to "add" any artifacts or distortions which are not actually part of the video footage.

In the way that I can evaluate standard dv footage on my NTSC production monitor, I want to create the same "production monitoring" arrangement for hdv without spending enormous $ and an enormous size HD CRT production monitor. I probably have to compromise, but want to at least be aware of where the shortcomings are. Thanks for you input.

Andy Mees · January 31st, 2007, 01:00 AM

Chris, I beleive the point here is that the 23" ACD is not an interlaced monitor, yet one of the features of the MXO box is that it allows you to use your ACD to view your interlaced footage ... these interlacing artefacts that it is minimzing are inherent only when viewing interlaced footage on a non interlaced display. that means what you see on the ACD is a more accurate representation of the true video quality than you would otherwise be able to see, except by outputing to a true HD monitor. basically its a good thing, not a bad thing.
At this point in time, other than buying a true HD capable monitor and an HD I/O card, the MXO is probably your cheapest route to high quality monitoring of HD.

January 15th, 2007, 08:15 AM	#1
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	Interesting question about editing HD/previewing SD Soon, I will be purchasing two of the new canon A1s, and the HV10 to use as a deck, and possible 3rd cam when needed. I know its not possible to preview HD through firewire like we currently do with an SD camera. NOTE - I'm using FCP 5.1.2. -- My question is, can I capture and edit my entire project in 24F HD using Final Cut Pro, and then preview my HD project using the firewire camera connected to an SD monitor (the HV10)? I know its a long-shot, but I figured someone might have tried. Thanks for the input.

January 17th, 2007, 05:03 AM	#9
Johan Forssblad Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vittsjö, SKÅNE, SWEDEN Posts: 266	Matrox MXO Hi, great news for economical color correction. Do you need a special monitor to make the color reproduction accurate or is there a special procedure to calibrate? Different LCD use to look very differently so how is this done?

January 17th, 2007, 07:43 PM	#11
James Collinson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Glasgow, UK Posts: 45	Phew! Thank goodness I found this thread! Sounds like the answer to all my budget problems! Thank you DVinfo!!

January 30th, 2007, 11:18 PM	#14
Chris Gorman Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: oceanside, california, u.s.a. Posts: 115	[QUOTE=Rich Dykmans]The MXO get's rid of the interlace artifacts when played back to an Apple 23". Motion artifacts, since they are inherent in the video itself are only minimized somewhat (again probably due to the frame blending the MXO does.) I wouldn't want any motion artifacts "inherent in the video" to be minimized. My purpose is the evaulate accurately the video quality so I don't want to disguise any defects. Importantly, I also don't want the monitor or configuration to "add" any artifacts or distortions which are not actually part of the video footage. In the way that I can evaluate standard dv footage on my NTSC production monitor, I want to create the same "production monitoring" arrangement for hdv without spending enormous $ and an enormous size HD CRT production monitor. I probably have to compromise, but want to at least be aware of where the shortcomings are. Thanks for you input. __________________ List My Threads

January 16th, 2007, 12:14 AM	#2
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	No. And this is because of the format you are shooting, HDV. HDV does not allow previewing of ANY kind via firewire. HOWEVER, if you get a Matrox MXO (www.matrox.com), you can. not only can you downconvert your HD footage to an SD monitor, you can turn your Apple 23" display into a fully functional HD COLOR CORRECTION monitor. Sweet box for only $999.

January 16th, 2007, 08:58 AM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	I agree, the MXO looks like a really interesting product and a clever design (it uses the DVI port on your graphics card, and some special drivers to insure that you're getting a color accurate image). Have you actually used one Shane? If so, does it live up to the promises? I read a very positive review in DV magazine last month.

January 16th, 2007, 08:15 PM	#7
Rich Dykmans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Discovery Bay, CA Posts: 138	After seeing the Matrox demo at Macworld and talking with Wayne (I guess you weren't there when I dropped by Shane) I placed my order and received it today. Seeing an identical image on both a 20" ACD and a Panny 1700 sold me! That's not something you can fake.

January 16th, 2007, 08:41 PM	#8
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Darn it Rich...probably one of my few excursions across the room, or a lunch break. But yes, Wayne's demo sold me too. If I didn't already own a Kona LH, that is.

January 17th, 2007, 08:16 AM	#10
Rich Dykmans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Discovery Bay, CA Posts: 138	I calibrate my ACD 23" with an Eye-one. Evidently the MXO will load the LUT from that calibration and use it during the process which leads to more accurate color. Even though hadware calibration isn't mandtory, according to Wayne it makes the MXO's color reproduction better.

January 30th, 2007, 10:50 PM	#13
Rich Dykmans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Discovery Bay, CA Posts: 138	The MXO get's rid of the interlace artifacts when played back to an Apple 23". Motion artifacts, since they are inherent in the video itself are only minimized somewhat (again probably due to the frame blending the MXO does.) The overall look of the video out of the MXO is still cleaner to me on my 17" video LCD then the ACD when I compare the 2 monitors but I believe that's due to the fact that the video LCD is lower resolution and benefits from the picture being scaled down. It's noteworthy that the MXO demo at Macworld featured an Apple 20" next to a Panasonic LH1700W and given their similar size screens and fairly similar resolutions it was very hard to see any apparent differences in either color or overall video quality. Short of a decklink or Kona there isn't really a better way to see your video in full quality / RT then the MXO IMHO.

January 31st, 2007, 01:00 AM	#15
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Chris, I beleive the point here is that the 23" ACD is not an interlaced monitor, yet one of the features of the MXO box is that it allows you to use your ACD to view your interlaced footage ... these interlacing artefacts that it is minimzing are inherent only when viewing interlaced footage on a non interlaced display. that means what you see on the ACD is a more accurate representation of the true video quality than you would otherwise be able to see, except by outputing to a true HD monitor. basically its a good thing, not a bad thing. At this point in time, other than buying a true HD capable monitor and an HD I/O card, the MXO is probably your cheapest route to high quality monitoring of HD.