Interesting question about editing HD/previewing SD

Chris Gorman · January 31st, 2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Mees

. . . that means what you see on the ACD is a more accurate representation of the true video quality than you would otherwise be able to see, except by outputing to a true HD monitor. basically its a good thing, not a bad thing.
At this point in time, other than buying a true HD capable monitor and an HD I/O card, the MXO is probably your cheapest route to high quality monitoring of HD.

Thanks Andy. I'm also wondering about the effect of the slow refresh rate on the ACD and what it might do to certain moving images despite going through the MXO.

Although much more costly, would you say the Panasonic BT-LH1700W HD/SD LCD monitor is a "true HD capable" monitor? If using the dvi-out of a G5, what piece of added hardware or adapter is needed to connect via the SDI input of the Panasonic? Just trying to compare how much more it might cost to go for "true HD capable".

Andy Mees · January 31st, 2007, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gorman

would you say the Panasonic BT-LH1700W HD/SD LCD monitor is a "true HD capable" monitor? If using the dvi-out of a G5, what piece of added hardware or adapter is needed to connect via the SDI input of the Panasonic? Just trying to compare how much more it might cost to go for "true HD capable".

Yep, the Panasonic is great monitor for the price.
In addition you need to add an HD capable I/O card like those provided by AJA and Blackmagic. The Kona card's from AJA are very highly regarded as is their customer support.
However if you want to use the DVI out of the G5's gfx card then you're still looking at the MXO. It's the MXO magic that routes the YUV through the DVI and thence out the HD/SD SDI on the box. Without it the signal output from the DVI is RGB.

Shane Ross · March 26th, 2007, 02:08 PM

FYI, I have a review of the Matrox MXO on my blog...finally.

www.lfhd.net

I haven't tried it with interlaced footage yet. I'll have to capture some DV footage and see what it looks like.

Chris Gorman · March 27th, 2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

FYI, I have a review of the Matrox MXO on my blog...finally. . . .
www.lfhd.net.

Read your blog and have a question. That calibrator is for print, isn't it? How do you calibrate for yuv? Or did you just eyeball it using the Sony monitor as a guide?

Shane Ross · March 27th, 2007, 03:25 AM

The Spyder? That calibrates the monitor for photos basically. It does this by balancing the grey scale mainly. Once that is set, then the image from the MXO was spot on. Now, the new version of the software is reputed to have controls to adjust the colors on the monitor. Which is good, because that is something that the current version lacks. It just happened to be right on. At least to my eye.

Chris Gorman · March 27th, 2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

The Spyder? That calibrates the monitor for photos basically. It does this by balancing the grey scale mainly. Once that is set, then the image from the MXO was spot on. Now, the new version of the software is reputed to have controls to adjust the colors on the monitor. Which is good, because that is something that the current version lacks. It just happened to be right on. At least to my eye.

I guess you mean that you used the adjacent sony monitor as a guide, and adjusted it to match that, right? In other words, you can't really calibrate for video unless you have a true hd crt video calibrated monitor sitting next to the ACD or whatever lcd. If that's the case, it seems the MXO is not really going to solve the problem for anyone who doesn't also own a calibrated hrt.

Shane Ross · March 27th, 2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gorman

I guess you mean that you used the adjacent sony monitor as a guide, and adjusted it to match that, right? In other words, you can't really calibrate for video unless you have a true hd crt video calibrated monitor sitting next to the ACD or whatever lcd. If that's the case, it seems the MXO is not really going to solve the problem for anyone who doesn't also own a calibrated hrt.

No...I did NOT use the Sony monitor as a guide, but rather as a COMPARISON. I just let the Spyder do it's thing...it calibrated the monitor. Then, I launched FCP, loaded bars on both monitors...loaded the same image on both monitors...and compared. I made NO adjustments after I had the images up. I couldn't...there were none to adjust. That feature is lacking in the current version. The NEXT version, however, is touted to have these features, allowing you to adjust the colors...and even get you a BLUE ONLY option. In that case, I would then calibrate to bars....just like I do with the Sony CRT. This is all by eyeball...so it takes a trained eye.

Chris Gorman · March 27th, 2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Ross

The Spyder? That calibrates the monitor for photos basically. It does this by balancing the grey scale mainly. . . .

If you set the greyscale for print, you are looking at a gamma different from video gamma. So I don't get it. Seems this might be fine for photographers and those producing for print, not video.

I'm hindered by not having an ACD to play with or look at settings. So maybe you select a setting so the ACD switches between RGB and YUV preview?

Shane Ross · March 27th, 2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Gorman

If you set the greyscale for print, you are looking at a gamma different from video gamma. So I don't get it. Seems this might be fine for photographers and those producing for print, not video.

I'm hindered by not having an ACD to play with or look at settings. So maybe you select a setting so the ACD switches between RGB and YUV preview?

First...yes, the monitor calibration sets up the monitor for COMPUTER gamma. What the Matrox MXO does is converts that gamma, rather well, INTO A VIDEO GAMMA. That is what it is designed to do. So if you have it properly calibrated, the MXO can properly convert it. That is the whole reason behind the MXO.

Second...AFAIK, you cannot switch between an RGB and YUV preview.

Michael Richard · April 1st, 2007, 07:50 AM

Will the Kona or BM cards give you the same capability to monitor footage RT and CC.

Matt Hagest · April 21st, 2007, 10:51 AM

just curious.. but you can use any lcd that supports hd and has dvi right?? i have a HP2335

Shane Ross · April 21st, 2007, 11:04 AM

Matt, depends if the monitor is 24" and can get 1920x1080 resolution. My Dell and the Apple monitors go to 1920x1200, so there is plenty of space. Anything less and you aren't getting a pixel-for-pixel representation.

I have no experience with that monitor, so I cannot say for sure. But I know the MXO works best with the Apple because the refresh rate is exactly 59.94. The Dell has 60Hz straight up, so there is a little wiggle at the top with a couple scan lines.

Andy Mees · April 21st, 2007, 08:34 PM

worth noting is that FCP6 now natively supports previewing HDV footage over firewire as a downconverted DV stream

(please don't anyone confuse this with what the MXO is doing as is being discussed here ...needless to say, the MXO is a far superior color critical solution for previewing broadcast quality in HD)

Scott Shama · May 8th, 2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Mees

worth noting is that FCP6 now natively supports previewing HDV footage over firewire as a downconverted DV stream

Huh? Where is this info? So do you mean edit hdv but feed an SD monitor and do my color correction?

Thanks,
Scott

Shane Ross · May 8th, 2007, 05:51 PM

"Huh? Where is this info? So do you mean edit hdv but feed an SD monitor and do my color correction?"

From the Matrox website:

http://www.matrox.com/video/products/mxo/

Also my blog:

http://lfhd.blogspot.com/2007/03/matrox-mxo-part-2.html

You can feed your SD monitor and color correct in a STANDARD DEF space, because the MXO does downconvert. Or, you can feed an Apple 23" display and color correct in an HD space.

April 1st, 2007, 07:50 AM	#25
Michael Richard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Midcoast, Maine Posts: 89	Does the KONA or BM do the same thing? Will the Kona or BM cards give you the same capability to monitor footage RT and CC.

April 21st, 2007, 08:34 PM	#28
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	SD preview of HDV now in FCP 6 worth noting is that FCP6 now natively supports previewing HDV footage over firewire as a downconverted DV stream (please don't anyone confuse this with what the MXO is doing as is being discussed here ...needless to say, the MXO is a far superior color critical solution for previewing broadcast quality in HD)

March 26th, 2007, 02:08 PM	#18
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	FYI, I have a review of the Matrox MXO on my blog...finally. www.lfhd.net I haven't tried it with interlaced footage yet. I'll have to capture some DV footage and see what it looks like.

March 27th, 2007, 03:25 AM	#20
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	The Spyder? That calibrates the monitor for photos basically. It does this by balancing the grey scale mainly. Once that is set, then the image from the MXO was spot on. Now, the new version of the software is reputed to have controls to adjust the colors on the monitor. Which is good, because that is something that the current version lacks. It just happened to be right on. At least to my eye.

April 21st, 2007, 10:51 AM	#26
Matt Hagest Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Dana Point, California Posts: 63	just curious.. but you can use any lcd that supports hd and has dvi right?? i have a HP2335

April 21st, 2007, 11:04 AM	#27
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Matt, depends if the monitor is 24" and can get 1920x1080 resolution. My Dell and the Apple monitors go to 1920x1200, so there is plenty of space. Anything less and you aren't getting a pixel-for-pixel representation. I have no experience with that monitor, so I cannot say for sure. But I know the MXO works best with the Apple because the refresh rate is exactly 59.94. The Dell has 60Hz straight up, so there is a little wiggle at the top with a couple scan lines.

May 8th, 2007, 05:51 PM	#30
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	"Huh? Where is this info? So do you mean edit hdv but feed an SD monitor and do my color correction?" From the Matrox website: http://www.matrox.com/video/products/mxo/ Also my blog: http://lfhd.blogspot.com/2007/03/matrox-mxo-part-2.html You can feed your SD monitor and color correct in a STANDARD DEF space, because the MXO does downconvert. Or, you can feed an Apple 23" display and color correct in an HD space.