HD / 16mm post workflow help at DVinfo.net

Matt Irwin · November 21st, 2006, 07:16 PM

I have a music video coming up that is going to mix DVCProHD (HVX) and standard 16mm, finishing to DVD and either Pro50 or DigiBeta in 1:85. Cutting in FCS 5.

It looks like I will be editing as well as the DP, so I'm trying to work out an efficient post workflow. This show is going to involve some pretty extreme color work in post (we're going for two distinct looks), so I want to stay in 4:2:2 until the bitter end.

Here's my (possibly flawed) thinking:

HD:
-Shoot 720/24pN
-Import to FCP
-Export using QT Conversion to DVCPro50/23.98 Anamorphic
-Re-import

16mm:
-Process and telecine to DigiBeta 23.98
-Rent deck and capture as DV50 thru firewire

Edit:
-DV50 23.98 timeline
-Matte all to 1:85
-Color work, AE, etc.
-Done. Export.

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,

Shane Ross · November 22nd, 2006, 03:14 AM

Why mix formats when you can easily avoid it? Mixing format complicates things.

The HVX-200 also shoots DVCPRO 50. Or you can have your 16mm film telecined to DVCPRO HD tape.

Then either work all DVCPRO 50 or all DVCPRO HD. There is no reason to mix formats.

Matt Irwin · November 22nd, 2006, 03:49 AM

We would be shooting in Pro50, but we plan on using some of the variable frame rates available in 720.

This is a microbudget project, so the producer is penny-pinching everywhere.
He want's to go to DigiBeta only because daily deck rental is cheaper for a digi deck than a pro50/proHD deck (interesting logic, no?).

I just found out about a house in town that does telecine direct to QT files, so I'll call them tomorrow about going that route. I don't want to mix formats any more than the next guy.

Shane Ross · November 22nd, 2006, 04:03 AM

Hmmm...first off, you can't telecine to digibeta at 23.98. Digibeta runs at 29.97. You'll have to use Cinema Tools to reverse telecine to 23.98.

Second, if your producer thinks he is saving a few hundred dollars on deck rental, then he is mistaken. Well, he is correct in assuming that that the money will be saved there...it will. But it will cost him in the long run...mainly with your time. Mixing SD and HD formats isn't fun nor easy nor pretty. Taking your glorious 16mm and transferring it to SD instead of HD...to me...is a crime.

So if this house can telecine directly to QT that will be an option. Make sure they are DVCPRO HD 23.98 quicktimes. Issue there...if you lose the hard drive they are on (it fails) then you are hosed. Need to re-telecine. $$$$.

Tell your boss the wisest choice is to telecine to DVCPRO HD tape, rent a deck for a day (pay the extra $200) and do this right. The easier your workflow the more money you save in the long run.

He may not heed your/my advice....I know. Just laying out the best course.

Matt Irwin · November 22nd, 2006, 04:20 AM

Sounds good. I'll make my/your case to him tomorrow.

Thanks for the help.

Don Donatello · November 22nd, 2006, 10:48 AM

IMO telecine to hard drive - some places can do DVCpro50/HD , black magic 10 bit 1920x1080 24p ( 23.976) , HDV , uncompressed - your choice ..
Bono labs is reasonable - they charge per min running time NOT how long it takes ( 15min -min charge $178)
http://www.bonolabs.com

Matt Irwin · November 22nd, 2006, 01:30 PM

Yeah, I know about Bono and SpyPost as well, but I'd really perfer a local (LA area) house.

What's the process with transferring standard 16 (1.33:1) to HD (1.78)? Is it just a choice of pillar-boxing and vertical scanning? Just realized I've never telecined std. 16 to HD before and never asked....

November 21st, 2006, 07:16 PM	#1
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	HD / 16mm post workflow help I have a music video coming up that is going to mix DVCProHD (HVX) and standard 16mm, finishing to DVD and either Pro50 or DigiBeta in 1:85. Cutting in FCS 5. It looks like I will be editing as well as the DP, so I'm trying to work out an efficient post workflow. This show is going to involve some pretty extreme color work in post (we're going for two distinct looks), so I want to stay in 4:2:2 until the bitter end. Here's my (possibly flawed) thinking: HD: -Shoot 720/24pN -Import to FCP -Export using QT Conversion to DVCPro50/23.98 Anamorphic -Re-import 16mm: -Process and telecine to DigiBeta 23.98 -Rent deck and capture as DV50 thru firewire Edit: -DV50 23.98 timeline -Matte all to 1:85 -Color work, AE, etc. -Done. Export. Is there a better way to do this? Thanks, __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

November 22nd, 2006, 03:49 AM	#3
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	We would be shooting in Pro50, but we plan on using some of the variable frame rates available in 720. This is a microbudget project, so the producer is penny-pinching everywhere. He want's to go to DigiBeta only because daily deck rental is cheaper for a digi deck than a pro50/proHD deck (interesting logic, no?). I just found out about a house in town that does telecine direct to QT files, so I'll call them tomorrow about going that route. I don't want to mix formats any more than the next guy. __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

November 22nd, 2006, 04:20 AM	#5
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	Sounds good. I'll make my/your case to him tomorrow. Thanks for the help. __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

November 22nd, 2006, 01:30 PM	#7
Matt Irwin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	Yeah, I know about Bono and SpyPost as well, but I'd really perfer a local (LA area) house. What's the process with transferring standard 16 (1.33:1) to HD (1.78)? Is it just a choice of pillar-boxing and vertical scanning? Just realized I've never telecined std. 16 to HD before and never asked.... __________________ Matt Irwin DP / matt.irwincine.com

November 22nd, 2006, 03:14 AM	#2
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Why mix formats when you can easily avoid it? Mixing format complicates things. The HVX-200 also shoots DVCPRO 50. Or you can have your 16mm film telecined to DVCPRO HD tape. Then either work all DVCPRO 50 or all DVCPRO HD. There is no reason to mix formats.

November 22nd, 2006, 04:03 AM	#4
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Hmmm...first off, you can't telecine to digibeta at 23.98. Digibeta runs at 29.97. You'll have to use Cinema Tools to reverse telecine to 23.98. Second, if your producer thinks he is saving a few hundred dollars on deck rental, then he is mistaken. Well, he is correct in assuming that that the money will be saved there...it will. But it will cost him in the long run...mainly with your time. Mixing SD and HD formats isn't fun nor easy nor pretty. Taking your glorious 16mm and transferring it to SD instead of HD...to me...is a crime. So if this house can telecine directly to QT that will be an option. Make sure they are DVCPRO HD 23.98 quicktimes. Issue there...if you lose the hard drive they are on (it fails) then you are hosed. Need to re-telecine. $$$$. Tell your boss the wisest choice is to telecine to DVCPRO HD tape, rent a deck for a day (pay the extra $200) and do this right. The easier your workflow the more money you save in the long run. He may not heed your/my advice....I know. Just laying out the best course.

November 22nd, 2006, 10:48 AM	#6
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	IMO telecine to hard drive - some places can do DVCpro50/HD , black magic 10 bit 1920x1080 24p ( 23.976) , HDV , uncompressed - your choice .. Bono labs is reasonable - they charge per min running time NOT how long it takes ( 15min -min charge $178) http://www.bonolabs.com