24p - The End All Be All Thread

[Gerald Galloway]

I shot recently a tv commercial on my dvx100p in regular 24p (standard). I obviously worked with the material in 29.97, and performed no "pulldown" since I didn't shoot in advanced. Creating a quicktime or viewing the commercial in my timeline before compressing for dvd output, i don't get any problems with motion. However ... after exporting as an mpeg-2 file for use in DVD studio pro2, and then viewing it on my 27" Panasonic television, I see some REALLY jerky motion problems that didn't exist in the uncompressed versions of the project. It's not just a subtle 24p strobing dea. it's obnoxious in one particular scene. Should I use innobits compressor instead ? Does the FCP supplied mpeg-2 compressor do this to all video shot in 24p mode with 1/24 shutter ?



Thanks for any help or advice you guys can offer.

[Benjamin Lehmann]

Can I edit stuff shot at 24P on Final Cut Express? What about shot at 30P and what if any is the advanteg to shooting 30P over 30 I?
Thanks,
Ben

[Boyd Ostroff]

FCE HD doesn't have native support for 24p; here's a table on Apple's site that compares features between iMovie HD, FCE HD and FCP HD: http://www.apple.com/finalcut/. You could use something like DVFilm Maker as an add-on however: http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/dvx100.htm

I think the distinction you want to make is 60i vs 30p. In 60i each frame (1/30th sec) consists of two fields (odd and even) that each have 240 lines. Since the two fields are captured 1/60th second apart moving objects will have a comb-like appearance on their edges. Also, very thin horizontal lines could end up being captured in one field and not the other, creating a flickering effect. To minimize this, the odd and even fields are blended in the camera which reduces vertical resolution by about 25%.

With 30p the entire image is sampled every 1/30th second which avoids the issues with motion and vertical resolution in 60i. It has a somewhat different look due to this. You should be able to edit 30p footage in FCE since it doesn't involve frame rate conversion like 24p.

This document discusses progressive scan in more detail: ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...ressive-WP.pdf

[Joe Lotu]

This is probably a silly question, but I searched through every 24p thread I could find on this site and couldn't find a clear answer.

I shot some 24p video using normal pulldown (3:2) in 16:9 on an XL2 and I'm trying to bring the footage into FCP5. I have tried several sequence/capture settings that various people have recommended to others who have shot footage with my exact settings on the same camera. Some say the sequence and the capture should be 23.98 fps, some say only the sequence should be 23.98 fps and the caputre 29.97 fps, while others say the sequnce should be 29.97 fps and the capture 23.98.

Regardless of what setting I've tried for capture, I can capture the footage fine and it will play in the viewer fine, but when I render the clip in the timeline, it introduces the interlacing artifacts on every 4th frame. My question is, is this normal to have the interlacing artifacts after rendering and when I print the footage back out to tape will the artifacts still be there?

[Brett OBourke]

I realize this thread is over a year old but ... I shot some stuff on my XL2 in 24p and I don't seem to be having trouble editing it in imovie. I haven't tried it in FCE HD yet as I just got the program a few days ago and have yet to really get a chance to spend time with it.

Is it still the case that imovie and FCE won't edit 24p? What gives?

BO'B

[Nate Schmidt]

Am I wrong or is 24p just 24 frames inside of a 60i stream and is edited in a regular 60i timeline, and 24pA is true 24 frames and edited in a 24p timeline. If this is the case then iMovie and FCE should have no trouble with that, just with 24pA. Just my 2 cents :-)

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Nate Schmidt

Am I wrong or is 24p just 24 frames inside of a 60i stream and is edited in a regular 60i timeline, and 24pA is true 24 frames and edited in a 24p timeline. If this is the case then iMovie and FCE should have no trouble with that, just with 24pA. Just my 2 cents :-)

Absolutely correct.

[Harrison Freedman]

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

Absolutely correct.

If this is the case then could you still technically convert 60i footage to 24p using Magic Bullet in FCE?

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Harrison Freedman

If this is the case then could you still technically convert 60i footage to 24p using Magic Bullet in FCE?

No. FCE doesn't allow you to have 23.98 sequences, which would be needed.

[Jeff Geissler]

I too have had a VERY hard time finding one CLEAR and straightforward workflow for capturing 24p 16:9
HOWEVER- I need it for regular 24p, not the 24pA.

So can someone break it down-- easy setup=?
Capture preset=?
Timeline preset=?
Export file with what settings?

And further- how to import to DVD studio Pro and maintain the 24p... all the tests I've done have exported my 24p to 29.97 and its NOT progressive...interlaced.

I kindly appreciate someones help with this-- I know its been quite the 'overasked' question, but it seems every post I find contradicts what I just rest elsewhere... Also my tests have failed to help me figure it out.

As of right now, I'm capturing 24p with the regular 29.97 anamorphic setting and am not sure if I'm using the feature properly.

HELP PLEASE !!

I will forever be in your debt!

~jeff

[Nate Weaver]

If you want a 24p timeline, and export 24p MPEGs for DVD, you should be have shot/be shooting 24pa. But it sounds like it's too late.

So:

1-Digitize using DV NTSC 29.97 16:9 capture preset. This gives you 29.97 DV files with the 24p frames inside to be extracted.

2-Remove extra fields (aka pulldown) using Cinema Tools. You'll have to do this on a file-by-file basis. When doing so, you'll have to tell Cinema Tools what the pulldown pattern is...you'll need to read up in the Cinema Tools manual to better understand this.

3-Bring your resulting media into FCP. Edit with the DV 23.98 Anamorphic Easy Setup.


Frankly, it's step two that is going to give you gray hair. Cinema Tools has to get the pattern just right for every clip.

Unless you have LOTS of time to figure this out, and ABSOLUTELY need to deliver a 24p native DVD, I'd give this one up. When you need a 24p native DVD, you shoot 24pa and edit in a 24p timeline, that's the easy way.

[Jeff Geissler]

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

If you want a 24p timeline, and export 24p MPEGs for DVD, you should be have shot/be shooting 24pa. But it sounds like it's too late.

So:

1-Digitize using DV NTSC 29.97 16:9 capture preset. This gives you 29.97 DV files with the 24p frames inside to be extracted.

2-Remove extra fields (aka pulldown) using Cinema Tools. You'll have to do this on a file-by-file basis. When doing so, you'll have to tell Cinema Tools what the pulldown pattern is...you'll need to read up in the Cinema Tools manual to better understand this.

3-Bring your resulting media into FCP. Edit with the DV 23.98 Anamorphic Easy Setup.


Frankly, it's step two that is going to give you gray hair. Cinema Tools has to get the pattern just right for every clip.

Unless you have LOTS of time to figure this out, and ABSOLUTELY need to deliver a 24p native DVD, I'd give this one up. When you need a 24p native DVD, you shoot 24pa and edit in a 24p timeline, that's the easy way.

GREAT! Nice and straightforward- just what I needed.

Now-- whats the point of 24p in normal mode then? What are the best settings to use since I shot in regular 24p?

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Jeff Geissler

GREAT! Nice and straightforward- just what I needed.

Now-- whats the point of 24p in normal mode then? What are the best settings to use since I shot in regular 24p?

Regular 24p mode is for working in plain 'ole DV 29.97. In other words, for compatibility.

I'm not clear if you used 16x9 crop (letterboxed), or 16x9 anamorphic. If you used the latter, you want the DV/NTSC 29.97 Anamorphic easy setup. If the former, just plain DV 29.97.

[Jeff Geissler]

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

Regular 24p mode is for working in plain 'ole DV 29.97. In other words, for compatibility.

I'm not clear if you used 16x9 crop (letterboxed), or 16x9 anamorphic. If you used the latter, you want the DV/NTSC 29.97 Anamorphic easy setup. If the former, just plain DV 29.97.

I used anamorphic- so I use that setup. Thanks!!
So I take it that 24p is 24 frames to fit into 29.97 due to some sort of flagging issue? What I've tried to read has been WAY over my head in terms of specifics...

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Jeff Geissler

So I take it that 24p is 24 frames to fit into 29.97 due to some sort of flagging issue? What I've tried to read has been WAY over my head in terms of specifics...

24p (with pulldown added, which is what the DVX/XL2 does) is 24 frames per second that have extra, redundant fields added to "pad" out the 24 frames to 30 frames per second.

Go to adamwilt.com. He has a great explanation of this with graphical representations.

I should add, you need to understand exactly what 29.97 regular DV video is comprised of before you tackle 24p.