24p - The End All Be All Thread

Josh Bass · September 28th, 2006, 01:06 AM

I couldn't find this particular topic addressed elsewhere in the forum, so. . .

I have an edited piece, footage shot on an XL2 at 24p, 2:3:3:2 pulldown, 16:9. How would I go about making it 24p that's printable to a miniDV tape? I'm not that familiar with FCP. Thanks.

Josh Bass · September 29th, 2006, 12:25 AM

Anyone? Anyone?

Since 24p footage from the XL2 is meant to be used in a 60i timeline, and is better for going back to tape, and 24pa is for a 24p timeline, and better for DVDs or other progressive distribution methods, isn't there a way to make 24pa footage back into 24p inside FCP?

I guess I could just put the 24pa project (the rendered, final cut of the piece, that is) on a DVD instead, without compressing it, and transfer it off the DVD into Vegas (which is what I have at home, the FCP doesn't belong to me), and worry about it there. . .

Edward Mendoza · October 3rd, 2006, 12:17 PM

Can someone explain to me why video shot in 24P using an JVC GY HD100U, after being imported into a Mac G5 through Final Cut Pro software, is interlacing?

Adam Oas · October 3rd, 2006, 12:38 PM

How are you importing, Via FW?
Where are you seeing the interlacing artifacts?
Are you importing to some codec other than HDV?
Are you SURE that it was recorded in 24P?

Tim Dashwood · October 3rd, 2006, 01:19 PM

You must have shot in NTSC-DV mode - 24P normal with a 2:3 pulldown.

Edward Mendoza · October 3rd, 2006, 01:31 PM

I did import via Fire Wire and I see the interlacing during playback in Final Cut (obviously most noticeable when the video is paused and one can see the lines around the moving subjects). The video was shot in 24P SD, not HDV.

I figured it was the result of the pulldown but was not sure. Tim, can the pulldown be removed through Final Cut if video had been recorded in 24PA?

Thank you guys for your input.

Tim Dashwood · October 3rd, 2006, 01:55 PM

The HD100 essentially functions as a DVX100 when in DV mode.

24P mode will capture and lay 24fps to 60i tape in a standard 2:3 pattern.

You can use Cinema Tools to batch "reverse telecine" your clips after you have captured them as standard NTSC 29.97fps. The disadvantage is a slight quality loss due to the fact that half of the frames need to be re-combined from split-fields, and then written back into a DV quicktime file.
Of course, if you have no immediate need to edit in a 24P timeline, then just leave it as-is and cut in a standard NTSC 29.97 timeline, being cautious not to make edits on pulldown frames.

If you had shot in DV 24PA (advanced 2:3:3:2 pulldown) mode, then you could have either had FCP remove the pulldown during capture, or remove it after being captured as NTSC.

The advantage of using 2:3:3:2 pulldown in DV is that FCP can easily discard the pulldown frames and you can immediately get to work in native 24P timelines. Also, there is no quality loss when discarding the repeated frames from the quicktime file.

The concepts being discussed in this thread really don't have much to do with the HD100, but specific FCP workflow understanding common to all 480P24 acquisition (DVX100, XL2, SDX-900, etc.) so I'm going to move it to DV Editing on a Mac.

Edward Mendoza · October 3rd, 2006, 02:22 PM

I appreciate it very much. And thanks for moving it to the proper forum.

Steve Maller · November 1st, 2006, 05:51 PM

I'm seeing this behavior, too. And it's weird. I have two different events I filmed with the same camera (XL2), same settings (24pA) and the files look very similar in FCP. But one renders smoothly into quicktime files, and the other has this weird every-4th-frame interlacing artifacts.

I'm really confused with this.

Jack McTigue · November 9th, 2006, 07:53 PM

I am very confused as well. Can someone explain whether or not removing the pulldown is nessecary while editing DV footage? When I capture 24P dv footage I then use Cinema Tools to remove the 2:3 pull down and that seems to take care of the interlacing. But recently, someone told me that is unessecary since DV is a interlaced format and the extra frames are ment to be there.

So, answer me this batman. Do I have to remove the pull down at all? PLEASE HELP IM CONFUSED! I'm seriously just thinking about switching to film...jk.

Brian Farris · November 15th, 2006, 12:33 PM

OK, so let's have a thread that shows the proper workflow from going to 24p>Final Cut Pro>DVD Studio Pro and then show the workflow for 24pa>Final Cut Pro> DVD Studio Pro.

There is a whole lot of sporatic information out there but I have not found anything that details what settings FCP need to be at for a 24p/24pa workflow, and proper encoding from FCP to DVD Studio, whether you use compressor, or export quicktime movie, or what.

Basically, all I'm looking for is the proper settings for both 24p, and 24pa.

Maybe... if we get the proper information, we can make this a sticky.

Greg Boston · November 15th, 2006, 01:18 PM

I posted it about a year and a half ago. Try looking back in the FCP or Canon XL2 forums. The question has come up on many occasions and you should get several hits by searching on 24P and FCP.

-gb-

Brian Farris · November 15th, 2006, 02:00 PM

So why is there no sticky about a 24p workflow for Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio pro?

Brian Farris · November 15th, 2006, 04:29 PM

I am also having the exact same problem.

Larry Huntington · November 21st, 2006, 02:45 PM

I have a tape that has both 60i and 24f footage (mostly 24f) from an HX-A1. When 60i clips hit a 24p timeline, they require rendering. Once rendered, the 60i clips play back jumpy, while the 24f clips play fine.

Is there an easy way to mix both 60i and 24f footage on the same timeline?
Perhaps I should try 24p footage on an HDV 60i timeline? Any guesses here?

September 28th, 2006, 01:06 AM	#16
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	print to tape issue - 24p 2:3:3:2, 16:9 I couldn't find this particular topic addressed elsewhere in the forum, so. . . I have an edited piece, footage shot on an XL2 at 24p, 2:3:3:2 pulldown, 16:9. How would I go about making it 24p that's printable to a miniDV tape? I'm not that familiar with FCP. Thanks. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 29th, 2006, 12:25 AM	#17
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Anyone? Anyone? Since 24p footage from the XL2 is meant to be used in a 60i timeline, and is better for going back to tape, and 24pa is for a 24p timeline, and better for DVDs or other progressive distribution methods, isn't there a way to make 24pa footage back into 24p inside FCP? I guess I could just put the 24pa project (the rendered, final cut of the piece, that is) on a DVD instead, without compressing it, and transfer it off the DVD into Vegas (which is what I have at home, the FCP doesn't belong to me), and worry about it there. . . __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

October 3rd, 2006, 12:17 PM	#18
Edward Mendoza Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 157	Interlacing 24P video Can someone explain to me why video shot in 24P using an JVC GY HD100U, after being imported into a Mac G5 through Final Cut Pro software, is interlacing?

October 3rd, 2006, 12:38 PM	#19
Adam Oas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fort Worth TX Posts: 69	How are you importing, Via FW? Where are you seeing the interlacing artifacts? Are you importing to some codec other than HDV? Are you SURE that it was recorded in 24P? __________________ ~~~Adam Oas~~~ www.TexasMotorSpeedway.com

October 3rd, 2006, 01:19 PM	#20
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	You must have shot in NTSC-DV mode - 24P normal with a 2:3 pulldown. __________________ Tim Dashwood

October 3rd, 2006, 01:31 PM	#21
Edward Mendoza Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 157	I did import via Fire Wire and I see the interlacing during playback in Final Cut (obviously most noticeable when the video is paused and one can see the lines around the moving subjects). The video was shot in 24P SD, not HDV. I figured it was the result of the pulldown but was not sure. Tim, can the pulldown be removed through Final Cut if video had been recorded in 24PA? Thank you guys for your input.

October 3rd, 2006, 01:55 PM	#22
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	The HD100 essentially functions as a DVX100 when in DV mode. 24P mode will capture and lay 24fps to 60i tape in a standard 2:3 pattern. You can use Cinema Tools to batch "reverse telecine" your clips after you have captured them as standard NTSC 29.97fps. The disadvantage is a slight quality loss due to the fact that half of the frames need to be re-combined from split-fields, and then written back into a DV quicktime file. Of course, if you have no immediate need to edit in a 24P timeline, then just leave it as-is and cut in a standard NTSC 29.97 timeline, being cautious not to make edits on pulldown frames. If you had shot in DV 24PA (advanced 2:3:3:2 pulldown) mode, then you could have either had FCP remove the pulldown during capture, or remove it after being captured as NTSC. The advantage of using 2:3:3:2 pulldown in DV is that FCP can easily discard the pulldown frames and you can immediately get to work in native 24P timelines. Also, there is no quality loss when discarding the repeated frames from the quicktime file. The concepts being discussed in this thread really don't have much to do with the HD100, but specific FCP workflow understanding common to all 480P24 acquisition (DVX100, XL2, SDX-900, etc.) so I'm going to move it to DV Editing on a Mac. __________________ Tim Dashwood

October 3rd, 2006, 02:22 PM	#23
Edward Mendoza Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 157	I appreciate it very much. And thanks for moving it to the proper forum.

November 1st, 2006, 05:51 PM	#24
Steve Maller Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Burlingame, CA USA Posts: 285	I'm seeing this behavior, too. And it's weird. I have two different events I filmed with the same camera (XL2), same settings (24pA) and the files look very similar in FCP. But one renders smoothly into quicktime files, and the other has this weird every-4th-frame interlacing artifacts. I'm really confused with this. __________________ me@facebook: http://facebook.com/stevemallerphotography

November 9th, 2006, 07:53 PM	#25
Jack McTigue New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 16	Do I remove the Pull down from 24P DV I am very confused as well. Can someone explain whether or not removing the pulldown is nessecary while editing DV footage? When I capture 24P dv footage I then use Cinema Tools to remove the 2:3 pull down and that seems to take care of the interlacing. But recently, someone told me that is unessecary since DV is a interlaced format and the extra frames are ment to be there. So, answer me this batman. Do I have to remove the pull down at all? PLEASE HELP IM CONFUSED! I'm seriously just thinking about switching to film...jk. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/francisburns "What the studios want now is "risk-free" films but with any sort of art you have to take risks. Not taking risks in art is like not having sex and then expecting there to be children." -Francis Ford Coppola

November 15th, 2006, 12:33 PM	#26
Brian Farris Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 99	24p - The End All Be All Thread OK, so let's have a thread that shows the proper workflow from going to 24p>Final Cut Pro>DVD Studio Pro and then show the workflow for 24pa>Final Cut Pro> DVD Studio Pro. There is a whole lot of sporatic information out there but I have not found anything that details what settings FCP need to be at for a 24p/24pa workflow, and proper encoding from FCP to DVD Studio, whether you use compressor, or export quicktime movie, or what. Basically, all I'm looking for is the proper settings for both 24p, and 24pa. Maybe... if we get the proper information, we can make this a sticky. __________________ Videography Blog - http://www.video.thirdprong.com/blog/

November 15th, 2006, 01:18 PM	#27
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	I posted it about a year and a half ago. Try looking back in the FCP or Canon XL2 forums. The question has come up on many occasions and you should get several hits by searching on 24P and FCP. -gb-

November 15th, 2006, 02:00 PM	#28
Brian Farris Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 99	So why is there no sticky about a 24p workflow for Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio pro? __________________ Videography Blog - http://www.video.thirdprong.com/blog/

November 15th, 2006, 04:29 PM	#29
Brian Farris Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 99	I am also having the exact same problem. __________________ Videography Blog - http://www.video.thirdprong.com/blog/

November 21st, 2006, 02:45 PM	#30
Larry Huntington Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Grass Valley, California Posts: 350	60i issues in FCP HDV 24p Timeline I have a tape that has both 60i and 24f footage (mostly 24f) from an HX-A1. When 60i clips hit a 24p timeline, they require rendering. Once rendered, the 60i clips play back jumpy, while the 24f clips play fine. Is there an easy way to mix both 60i and 24f footage on the same timeline? Perhaps I should try 24p footage on an HDV 60i timeline? Any guesses here?