Mind bender! at DVinfo.net

Trevor Allin · October 10th, 2006, 01:54 AM

Hi

I am using an external Firewire 800 drive as my scratch disk. However, when I turn on my dv camcorder FCP doesn't recognise it and the drive light on my external drive goes nuts and stays nuts until I turn the camera off.

If I set scratch to the internal disk this problem goes away.

Slowly losing sanity. Ideas appreciated!

Thanks

Trevor

Gunleik Groven · October 10th, 2006, 06:17 AM

Has this ever worked?
1 - Check your cabeles

How do you hook up?
Have you tried taking the cam through the disk?
What computer are you on?

Gunleik

Chris Hurd · October 10th, 2006, 07:26 AM

FireWire is a bus. Please forgive this play on words, but all devices which connect by FireWire are basically scrambling for seats on this city bus. DV camcorders always want to be first. The camcorder says to the computer, "I've got first place on this thing or I'm not riding it at all." And the computer says, okay, as long as nobody else wants it, you can have it. Along comes your FW800 drive, hopping on the bus. Guess what, it also wants that coveted first place on the FireWire chain. The camcorder says, "not so fast, that's my seat," and isn't about to vacate that position. But the FW drive doesn't give up so easily and continues to fight. You know how it's impossible to communicate with somebody who's already wrapped up in a heated argument?

Well, there's your problem. The camcorder isn't giving up its front seat, the FW drive continues to fight for it anyway, and the computer, which is driving the bus, is under strict orders to keep the bus moving, and don't stop for anything, not even this squabble between passengers, because it's more important to appease God (that's you) by keeping the bus moving. If the bus stops, then the system stops; which tends to incur the Wrath of God (that's you). The bus thinks, well, it's better to keep on driving even with this argument going on, at least somebody is sitting in the first seat, and I'm under orders not to stop anyway. So it pretty much ignores the FW800 drive. Thus... your trouble. The light going nuts on your FW800 drive indicates how frustrated it is, the camcorder says "ha ha, I win" and the computer is far too busy with more important things to worry about than to bother mediating this trivial distraction from such demanding passengers. After all, the computer must keep on driving the bus, in order to make God happy (that's you).

If there's a way you can assign a specific connection order value other than "1" to the FW drive, that would probably fix the issue. Maybe somebody here knows how to do that? Good luck,

William Hohauser · October 10th, 2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Allin

Hi

I am using an external Firewire 800 drive as my scratch disk. However, when I turn on my dv camcorder FCP doesn't recognise it and the drive light on my external drive goes nuts and stays nuts until I turn the camera off.

If I set scratch to the internal disk this problem goes away.

Slowly losing sanity. Ideas appreciated!

Thanks

Trevor

Describe the wire setup. Are the drive and camcorder sharing the same port?

Trevor Allin · October 11th, 2006, 12:51 PM

Hi

Thanks for your help. The bus analagy was very helpful.

The hard drive is connected via a firewire 800. And the camera connects via a firewire 400 connection. Both have their own power supply.

I am using a Powermac G5 dual 2 gig with 4 Gig of RAM.

Thanks

Trevor

William Hohauser · October 11th, 2006, 03:18 PM

OK, are you using the front FireWire 400 port for the camera? If so I suggest using the rear port instead.

I have the same computer with a FireWire 800 drive attached and I can attach a camera or deck without a problem. What brand drive and camera are you using?

Dave Perry · October 11th, 2006, 04:36 PM

The front and rear FW 400 ports on the G5 are on the same bus. If you cannot find the right order in which to connect the devices, get a firewire card to install. That will give you a separate bus for the camera and the drive.

I have 3 fw 400 drives daisey chained to one port on my Mac Mini and my camera is the last device in the chain. I don't have any problems with the setup.

The G5s at work are not so friendly. we had to install another fw card for drives and use the built in bus for capture with a AJA IO. I don't know this for sure but I don't think fw 800 works all that well on the G5. Granted ours are one of the first generations, but using the FW 800 drives on a 400 bus works fine.

Lee Wilson · October 20th, 2006, 09:34 PM

Me:

Powermac G5 dual 2 gig -

firewire 800 connected to the back -

HV10/FX-1/Z1E all plumb into the little firewire port on the front and get on fine with FCP.

??

Greg Boston · October 20th, 2006, 09:41 PM

If you plug a FW400 device onto a bus that's running a FW800 device, the whole bus has to slow down to the slowest device.

I'll bet you wouldn't see all this commotion with your drive when plugging in the camera if it was a FW400 drive.

-gb-

William Hohauser · October 21st, 2006, 10:29 AM

As coincidences go, a friend with a similar system has his deck in the 400 port and a 400 external plugged into the 800 port by an adapter cable. The external disappeared suddenly this week so I brought over a regular 400 cable and plugged it into the front and it came back. The 800 cable went bad as far as we can tell, the friend is getting a replacement cable so we'll see if the port is still OK.

What the point? Try a new cable or as other posters have recommended get an 800 board.

October 10th, 2006, 01:54 AM	#1
Trevor Allin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 152	Mind bender! Hi I am using an external Firewire 800 drive as my scratch disk. However, when I turn on my dv camcorder FCP doesn't recognise it and the drive light on my external drive goes nuts and stays nuts until I turn the camera off. If I set scratch to the internal disk this problem goes away. Slowly losing sanity. Ideas appreciated! Thanks Trevor

October 10th, 2006, 06:17 AM	#2
Gunleik Groven Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Espa - Norway Posts: 151	Has this ever worked? 1 - Check your cabeles How do you hook up? Have you tried taking the cam through the disk? What computer are you on? Gunleik __________________ Red? Sure!

October 10th, 2006, 07:26 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	FireWire is a bus. Please forgive this play on words, but all devices which connect by FireWire are basically scrambling for seats on this city bus. DV camcorders always want to be first. The camcorder says to the computer, "I've got first place on this thing or I'm not riding it at all." And the computer says, okay, as long as nobody else wants it, you can have it. Along comes your FW800 drive, hopping on the bus. Guess what, it also wants that coveted first place on the FireWire chain. The camcorder says, "not so fast, that's my seat," and isn't about to vacate that position. But the FW drive doesn't give up so easily and continues to fight. You know how it's impossible to communicate with somebody who's already wrapped up in a heated argument? Well, there's your problem. The camcorder isn't giving up its front seat, the FW drive continues to fight for it anyway, and the computer, which is driving the bus, is under strict orders to keep the bus moving, and don't stop for anything, not even this squabble between passengers, because it's more important to appease God (that's you) by keeping the bus moving. If the bus stops, then the system stops; which tends to incur the Wrath of God (that's you). The bus thinks, well, it's better to keep on driving even with this argument going on, at least somebody is sitting in the first seat, and I'm under orders not to stop anyway. So it pretty much ignores the FW800 drive. Thus... your trouble. The light going nuts on your FW800 drive indicates how frustrated it is, the camcorder says "ha ha, I win" and the computer is far too busy with more important things to worry about than to bother mediating this trivial distraction from such demanding passengers. After all, the computer must keep on driving the bus, in order to make God happy (that's you). If there's a way you can assign a specific connection order value other than "1" to the FW drive, that would probably fix the issue. Maybe somebody here knows how to do that? Good luck, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 11th, 2006, 03:18 PM	#6
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	OK, are you using the front FireWire 400 port for the camera? If so I suggest using the rear port instead. I have the same computer with a FireWire 800 drive attached and I can attach a camera or deck without a problem. What brand drive and camera are you using? __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

October 11th, 2006, 04:36 PM	#7
Dave Perry Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 796	The front and rear FW 400 ports on the G5 are on the same bus. If you cannot find the right order in which to connect the devices, get a firewire card to install. That will give you a separate bus for the camera and the drive. I have 3 fw 400 drives daisey chained to one port on my Mac Mini and my camera is the last device in the chain. I don't have any problems with the setup. The G5s at work are not so friendly. we had to install another fw card for drives and use the built in bus for capture with a AJA IO. I don't know this for sure but I don't think fw 800 works all that well on the G5. Granted ours are one of the first generations, but using the FW 800 drives on a 400 bus works fine. __________________ Dave Perry Cinematographer LLC Director of Photography • Editor • Digital Film Production • 540.915.2752 • daveperry.net

October 11th, 2006, 12:51 PM	#5
Trevor Allin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 152	Hi Thanks for your help. The bus analagy was very helpful. The hard drive is connected via a firewire 800. And the camera connects via a firewire 400 connection. Both have their own power supply. I am using a Powermac G5 dual 2 gig with 4 Gig of RAM. Thanks Trevor

October 20th, 2006, 09:34 PM	#8
Lee Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 376	Me: Powermac G5 dual 2 gig - firewire 800 connected to the back - HV10/FX-1/Z1E all plumb into the little firewire port on the front and get on fine with FCP. ??

October 20th, 2006, 09:41 PM	#9
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	If you plug a FW400 device onto a bus that's running a FW800 device, the whole bus has to slow down to the slowest device. I'll bet you wouldn't see all this commotion with your drive when plugging in the camera if it was a FW400 drive. -gb-

October 21st, 2006, 10:29 AM	#10
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	As coincidences go, a friend with a similar system has his deck in the 400 port and a 400 external plugged into the 800 port by an adapter cable. The external disappeared suddenly this week so I brought over a regular 400 cable and plugged it into the front and it came back. The 800 cable went bad as far as we can tell, the friend is getting a replacement cable so we'll see if the port is still OK. What the point? Try a new cable or as other posters have recommended get an 800 board. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation