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Jeff Mack · August 30th, 2006, 10:05 AM

OK, I just switched from Vegas (PC) to FCP HD. I have a 17" MBPro and a Lacie 1.6TB 800 FW Drive. I just captured an SD downconvert of 50 HDCam tapes and am now beginning an edit. I have a couple of quick questions and a workflow that I would like some comments on.

First, I don't understand the purpose of the viewer vs. canvas vs. timeline. For instance, with Vegas, I can load clips onto the timeline and play through the preview window. I can edit on the timeline and play the results through the preview. The FC manual says to load into the viewer, do the edits? There are controls on the viewer but I don't see any controls for the timeline. Maybe it will be easier to understand my problem if I explain my workflow.

I shot a 3 camera shoot of music performances. The first performance was seven songs. I captured three tapes with the capture now feature (entire tape) I labeled each one. Then I loaded the first angle into the viewer and used markers to do a rough edit. I put a marker at the beginning and end of each song. I did this for all three tapes. I then created subclips of seven songs for each angle. I then loaded three video tracks for the first song onto the timeline. Because I have timecode problems at the shoot, I have to manually sync the angles by aligning the waveforms. Here's where my questions start.

I made subclips of each song for each angle. I then put each subclip for the first song on the timeline. I expanded the timeline so I could see all 6 tracks. Comment - when I try to slide a track to sync it with another, I get the 4 way arrow. The track doesn't move very freely. Second, I put the cursor from the timeline at the in point on the first track and try to move the second and third to it. After expanding the track so I could see more detail on the waveform, the cursur is too wide to use to line up the other tracks to it. Second, I couldn't figure how to play off of the timeline to hear how close my sync was. I only saw a play button on the viewer and the canvase. Each of those windows only have 1 track that plays. I want to hear all three audios at once. BTW, I moved my timeline to a second monitor to free up space. I just cant figure how to hear all three at once. After I get them sync'd, then I want to enable the multiclip feature and cut the three angles into one. Once I sync all three up, I wanted to use the razor tool to make all three clips start at the same point. I can't use timecode to do it because the director jammed the t/c on two of the three cameras and the two drift quite a bit. My goal is to then save thest three clips (per song) for future use. I want to render a final cut of each song as well so I can mix and match artists and songs into different compilations.

Sorry for the lengthy post but my training DVD's are not hear yet and the manuals seems unclear to me.

Jeff

Cole McDonald · August 30th, 2006, 11:47 AM

to move a clip on the timeline in final cut with a goodly amount of control, hold down the option key and use the arrow keys. These will move the clip a frame at a time. Listen to the audio of the clips together for echos, they should disappear when You get them synched up.

The canvas is the end result of the editing, the viewer is for working on individual elements of the timeline, yes, you can load edit points into it as well...whatever it is you want to work on individually, you either double-click to load in the viewer, ctrl-click > show in viewer or right-click > show in viewer.

The viewer is where I set in and out points for clips from the clips pane (double click, i=in point, o=outpoint, space=play) before dragging them to the timeline where I trim them to match the edit by dragging the edit piont (with edit point selected, you can option arrow as well to move a frame at a time).

As for the multiclip, I'm not sure how that works, there should be a manual on the install disk for FCP (I have FCE)...or I've had really good luck with the FC for dummies books by Helmut Kobler...I'm not sure if he's redone it for the most recent iteration of FCP, but the older FCE I've got is phenomenal!

Jeff Mack · August 30th, 2006, 11:56 AM

Interesting. SO you suggest I load angle one of song one to the viewer, trim the front at the beginning of a particular waveform, put it on the timeline do the same for the second and third? Then I make sure all three are lined up at the same spot and do a multiclip edit? How do you play all three audios at once from the timeline so I can hear a potential echo?

Jeff

Nate Schmidt · August 30th, 2006, 12:21 PM

All three should play at once from the timeline, the canvas window and timeline are linked so when you play in the canvas its the same as hitting space bar in the timeline.
You've got the idea on workflow load (double click) to the viewer and set in and out points to do a rough cut then trim in the timeline.

Jeff Mack · August 30th, 2006, 12:24 PM

thanks,

Last question, so when I hit the play button in the canvas, I should hear all three audios?

Jeff

Nate Schmidt · August 30th, 2006, 01:06 PM

Correct, unless one has an overpowering volume level ;-)

William Hohauser · August 30th, 2006, 03:07 PM

You have to make the multi-clip first before loading the resulting proxy clip into the timelime. Once it is in the timeline you have to "open" the sync in the canvas window, it's a little pull down tab above the canvas screen. Once you do this you can get a multi camera screen in the viewer and you cut between the tracks.

You really have to read the manual on multiclips. It's one of the most un-intuitive parts of FCP but once you have it set up to your liking, and I recommend making a custom keyboard setup for switching, it's a great feature. I use it often.

Or you can work like I did for a music video recently; place the clips on the timeline using a common event as a sync reference if you don't have indentical timecode. Turn of the audio for all except the main track. Work your way down the tracks using the razor blade tool to remove shots you don't want.

Your predicament reminds me of time I switched from the Media100 to Final Cut. Hang in there, it'll get better in a few days.

Ron Pfister · August 31st, 2006, 06:24 AM

While we're on this topic, I was wondering if it is possible to adjust audio-sync in a multi-clip at the sub-frame level. I've recently done a dual-cam shoot, and it seems to me that the best sync I can achieve is either a little to early or a little too late. 1/25th of a second is a long time ;)

Thanks for any pointers!

William Hohauser · September 1st, 2006, 05:35 PM

Use an audio post program.

Nate Weaver · September 1st, 2006, 06:02 PM

You can slide audio sub frame in FCP, but I can't recall how. I've never had to do it myself.

You probably can't do it within a multiclip, however.

Nate Schmidt · September 1st, 2006, 07:52 PM

If you double click the audio to load it into the viewer you can hold shift and drag the playhead less than one frame and then set an in point.

August 30th, 2006, 10:05 AM	#1
Jeff Mack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 195	New Mac user OK, I just switched from Vegas (PC) to FCP HD. I have a 17" MBPro and a Lacie 1.6TB 800 FW Drive. I just captured an SD downconvert of 50 HDCam tapes and am now beginning an edit. I have a couple of quick questions and a workflow that I would like some comments on. First, I don't understand the purpose of the viewer vs. canvas vs. timeline. For instance, with Vegas, I can load clips onto the timeline and play through the preview window. I can edit on the timeline and play the results through the preview. The FC manual says to load into the viewer, do the edits? There are controls on the viewer but I don't see any controls for the timeline. Maybe it will be easier to understand my problem if I explain my workflow. I shot a 3 camera shoot of music performances. The first performance was seven songs. I captured three tapes with the capture now feature (entire tape) I labeled each one. Then I loaded the first angle into the viewer and used markers to do a rough edit. I put a marker at the beginning and end of each song. I did this for all three tapes. I then created subclips of seven songs for each angle. I then loaded three video tracks for the first song onto the timeline. Because I have timecode problems at the shoot, I have to manually sync the angles by aligning the waveforms. Here's where my questions start. I made subclips of each song for each angle. I then put each subclip for the first song on the timeline. I expanded the timeline so I could see all 6 tracks. Comment - when I try to slide a track to sync it with another, I get the 4 way arrow. The track doesn't move very freely. Second, I put the cursor from the timeline at the in point on the first track and try to move the second and third to it. After expanding the track so I could see more detail on the waveform, the cursur is too wide to use to line up the other tracks to it. Second, I couldn't figure how to play off of the timeline to hear how close my sync was. I only saw a play button on the viewer and the canvase. Each of those windows only have 1 track that plays. I want to hear all three audios at once. BTW, I moved my timeline to a second monitor to free up space. I just cant figure how to hear all three at once. After I get them sync'd, then I want to enable the multiclip feature and cut the three angles into one. Once I sync all three up, I wanted to use the razor tool to make all three clips start at the same point. I can't use timecode to do it because the director jammed the t/c on two of the three cameras and the two drift quite a bit. My goal is to then save thest three clips (per song) for future use. I want to render a final cut of each song as well so I can mix and match artists and songs into different compilations. Sorry for the lengthy post but my training DVD's are not hear yet and the manuals seems unclear to me. Jeff

August 30th, 2006, 11:47 AM	#2
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	to move a clip on the timeline in final cut with a goodly amount of control, hold down the option key and use the arrow keys. These will move the clip a frame at a time. Listen to the audio of the clips together for echos, they should disappear when You get them synched up. The canvas is the end result of the editing, the viewer is for working on individual elements of the timeline, yes, you can load edit points into it as well...whatever it is you want to work on individually, you either double-click to load in the viewer, ctrl-click > show in viewer or right-click > show in viewer. The viewer is where I set in and out points for clips from the clips pane (double click, i=in point, o=outpoint, space=play) before dragging them to the timeline where I trim them to match the edit by dragging the edit piont (with edit point selected, you can option arrow as well to move a frame at a time). As for the multiclip, I'm not sure how that works, there should be a manual on the install disk for FCP (I have FCE)...or I've had really good luck with the FC for dummies books by Helmut Kobler...I'm not sure if he's redone it for the most recent iteration of FCP, but the older FCE I've got is phenomenal! __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

August 30th, 2006, 12:21 PM	#4
Nate Schmidt Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Welland ON Posts: 515	All three should play at once from the timeline, the canvas window and timeline are linked so when you play in the canvas its the same as hitting space bar in the timeline. You've got the idea on workflow load (double click) to the viewer and set in and out points to do a rough cut then trim in the timeline. __________________ "We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

August 30th, 2006, 01:06 PM	#6
Nate Schmidt Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Welland ON Posts: 515	Correct, unless one has an overpowering volume level ;-) __________________ "We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

August 30th, 2006, 03:07 PM	#7
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	You have to make the multi-clip first before loading the resulting proxy clip into the timelime. Once it is in the timeline you have to "open" the sync in the canvas window, it's a little pull down tab above the canvas screen. Once you do this you can get a multi camera screen in the viewer and you cut between the tracks. You really have to read the manual on multiclips. It's one of the most un-intuitive parts of FCP but once you have it set up to your liking, and I recommend making a custom keyboard setup for switching, it's a great feature. I use it often. Or you can work like I did for a music video recently; place the clips on the timeline using a common event as a sync reference if you don't have indentical timecode. Turn of the audio for all except the main track. Work your way down the tracks using the razor blade tool to remove shots you don't want. Your predicament reminds me of time I switched from the Media100 to Final Cut. Hang in there, it'll get better in a few days. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

August 30th, 2006, 11:56 AM	#3
Jeff Mack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 195	Interesting. SO you suggest I load angle one of song one to the viewer, trim the front at the beginning of a particular waveform, put it on the timeline do the same for the second and third? Then I make sure all three are lined up at the same spot and do a multiclip edit? How do you play all three audios at once from the timeline so I can hear a potential echo? Jeff

August 30th, 2006, 12:24 PM	#5
Jeff Mack Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 195	thanks, Last question, so when I hit the play button in the canvas, I should hear all three audios? Jeff

August 31st, 2006, 06:24 AM	#8
Ron Pfister Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Basel area, Switzerland Posts: 285	While we're on this topic, I was wondering if it is possible to adjust audio-sync in a multi-clip at the sub-frame level. I've recently done a dual-cam shoot, and it seems to me that the best sync I can achieve is either a little to early or a little too late. 1/25th of a second is a long time ;) Thanks for any pointers! __________________ Ronald P. Pfister halimedia - digital solutions and services www.halimedia.com

September 1st, 2006, 05:35 PM	#9
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Use an audio post program. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

September 1st, 2006, 06:02 PM	#10
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	You can slide audio sub frame in FCP, but I can't recall how. I've never had to do it myself. You probably can't do it within a multiclip, however. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

September 1st, 2006, 07:52 PM	#11
Nate Schmidt Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Welland ON Posts: 515	If you double click the audio to load it into the viewer you can hold shift and drag the playhead less than one frame and then set an in point. __________________ "We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."