Capturing 720P30 with FCP5...

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

I tried the same tapes on a friend's G5 and he was able to capture without issue. Maybe my G4's at fault?

I think you've ruled-out the camera and tapes. V5.0.4 works perfectly even on a G3 iBook so I doubt it is 5.0.4.

So I would wonder about your G4. Can you tell us more about it.

[Michael Anderson]

I have a G5 2 GHz dual processor and i've been having the same problem. I've been using the AIC work around suggested by Corey to import footage.

Michael

[Scott Jaco]

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

Thanks for the advice. How much quality loss will I experience with the AIC?

AIC doesn't really lose any quality. It just converts the HDV stream to a different format that is more "editing friendly" w/ FCP. In fact it actually expands the file which uses up twice as much hard drive space. I don't think you are really losing any quality, it's just not in the original HDV format anymore.

I started using this method because like many people, I was losing the first 4 seconds of each clip when capturing with the HDV codec, so I started capturing with AIC to prevent the gaps.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

AIC doesn't really lose any quality. It just converts the HDV stream to a different format that is more "editing friendly" w/ FCP. In fact it actually expands the file which uses up twice as much hard drive space. I don't think you are really losing any quality, it's just not in the original HDV format anymore.

Note quite so fast. Every IBP-frame MPEG-2 frame must be decoded to baseband video and then re-encoded to I-frame MPEG-2. (Which is why the file expands.) That is certainly not going to keep quality at an equal level. But, the loss may not be visible either. Depends on the bit-rate reduction ratio used by AIC.

Interlace HDV is degraded because there is a problem with how the AIC encoder handles interlace.

I think AIC is fine for iMovie and FCE.

Since I've never had a problem with native 30p in over 3 years -- I'm at a loss to explain why it works fine on someone's friend's G5 but not on their G4. This doesn't point to HDV or FCP.

Which also makes me wonder -- you are capturing a whole tape and using Scene Detect aren't you?

[Bill Edmunds]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Interlace HDV is degraded because there is a problem with how the AIC encoder handles interlace.

What about progressive video?

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Which also makes me wonder -- you are capturing a whole tape and using Scene Detect aren't you?

Ummm.... scene detect???

[Bill Edmunds]

Is it possible to capture HDV using a different codec? Such as DVCPro HD? Probably not with firewire, but perhaps with component? Just thinking off the top of my head...

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

Is it possible to capture HDV using a different codec? Such as DVCPro HD? Probably not with firewire, but perhaps with component? Just thinking off the top of my head...

See Eric's post mid-way through on this thread:http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=70326

[Bill Edmunds]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

See Eric's post mid-way through on this thread:http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=70326

That's very cool. It addresses 24p as opposed to 30p, but I"m guessing that doesn't matter (?).

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

That's very cool. It addresses 24p as opposed to 30p, but I"m guessing that doesn't matter (?).

Yes - it shouldn't. I'm sure this method was developed to deal with the lack of native 24P suppport in FCP and the compression limitations of HDV.

[Bill Edmunds]

Would capturing HDV via component be any less "qualitative" than capturing via firewire?

[Tim Brown]

I'm sure any loss would be imperceptible and would be largely outweighed by the gains of transcoding to 4:2:2, but I haven't tried it yet. I should stop yakking and test it out. I haven't had much time as of late, but should in the next week or so. I'll give it a test and let you know what I find.

Tim

[Bill Edmunds]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

I'm sure any loss would be imperceptible and would be largely outweighed by the gains of transcoding to 4:2:2, but I haven't tried it yet. I should stop yakking and test it out. I haven't had much time as of late, but should in the next week or so. I'll give it a test and let you know what I find.

Tim

If you could post image stills comparing the two, that would be even better...

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

How much quality loss will I experience with the AIC?
...
If you could post image stills comparing the two, that would be even better...

It's been done. Try searching the FCP forum for "AIC." We've discussed this a million times.

Here's a thread that has some comparison frames between AIC and native HDV.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=61472

AIC works very well for 720P. I've always been impressed by the fact that results are visually indistinguishable from the original. The biggest problem at the moment is that the auto AIC capture utility built into FCP does not record the source TC. Too bad.

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

I wind up losing about 3-4 seconds off each shot, however, as FCP hurries to make a new clip out of each shot. I tried the same tapes on a friend's G5 and he was able to capture without issue. Maybe my G4's at fault? Or maybe I should reinstall FCP? Could it be that I'm running FCP 5.0.4 and not 5.1.1?

There is nothing abnormal here. A G5 will simply be able to cache and write the data to disk quicker than a G4, and therefore you will not lose as much preroll off the top of each break.
The thing is, the first 3 or 4 seconds of camera rollup should be of absolutely no concern to you. Every professional editing system has always required at least 3 seconds of clean TC for pre-roll sync. Some require 7 seconds!
The reason professional cameramen have always provided preroll is to avoid losing any important footage during ingest.

If you are shooting material that requires rolling at a moment's notice (like a fishing show,) then I suggest the DR-HD100. It has a cache record function that will cache up to 10 seconds BEFORE you actually hit the record button! I've tested it and it works.

Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds

I wonder if these issues go away with the JVC HDV deck?

It won't make a difference.

Now that we've gotten to the bottom of your "issues" with FCP (and since FCP doesn't hate your HD100,) I think the title of the thread should be changed to something more accurate. Suggestions anyone?

[Tim Brown]

Hey Tim,

My intent was to compare HDV to uncompressed 720p, not to AIC. Has a comparison been made yet between full 140mb/s uncompressed and 25mb/s HDV?

[Bill Edmunds]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

There is nothing abnormal here. A G5 will simply be able to cache and write the data to disk quicker than a G4, and therefore you will not lose as much preroll off the top of each break.

Makes sense to me. And that is the answer I've been looking for the whole time. I'll either get a KONA card or use the AIC and that should solve everything.

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

The thing is, the first 3 or 4 seconds of camera rollup should be of absolutely no concern to you. Every professional editing system has always required at least 3 seconds of clean TC for pre-roll sync. Some require 7 seconds!

Are you talking about every single shot, or the first shot after camera startup? Because if the former, it is literally impossible in event shooting to always "preroll" for 3-4 seconds ahead of time for every shot. For controlled shooting, it's a piece of cake.

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Now that we've gotten to the bottom of your "issues" with FCP (and since FCP doesn't hate your HD100,) I think the title of the thread should be changed to something more accurate. Suggestions anyone?

That's fine. I never literally meant that FCP hated my HD100. I merely used that line to get people to read the thread. And it worked.