HDV Capture - Losing Frames or Time-Code at DVinfo.net

Ron Pfister · May 2nd, 2006, 12:24 PM

Hello all!

I'm trying to do a continuous FireWire tape-capture of HDV-footage shot w/ free-run time-code, and can't seem to find a way around the following problem:

- If I use the native HDV 1080i50 setup, FCP creates new clips at each time-code break, but cuts off the pre-roll durations (which can't be set below 1 second - why???) of each clip. Free-run time-code is preserved.

- If I use the Apple Intermediate Codec HDV 1080i50 setup, FCP also creates new clips beginning at each time code break, but doesn't cut off anything at the beginning of each clip (which is what I want). Unfortunately, time-code is not preserved.

Is there a way to get the best of both worlds? Time-code is important in this capture, as it's multi-cam shoot. Some takes have cruical content at the very beginning, so loosing the pre-roll footage is a problem, too. Any hints would be wildly appreciated - it's urgent...

TIA,

Ron

Setup: Quad w/ OS X 10.4.6 and FCP 5.0.4

Ron Pfister · May 2nd, 2006, 02:28 PM

For clarification: I'd also be happy capturing each tape as one clip, and then creating subclips from there. I haven't found a way to do this, however. Any ideas?

I'd also gladly look at other capture workflow. I've tried DVHSCap and HDVxDV. Both create .m2t-files, which FCP can't handle. Going from DVHSCap to MPEG Streamclip, I lose time-code. HDVxDV preserves time-code in some way, but it definitely doesn't correspond to the fre-run tc on tape.

Nate Weaver · May 3rd, 2006, 08:49 AM

I personally don't know of any way to do what you'd like. I've had the problem, and it seems intrinsic to the way HDV is handled at the moment.

If you had used regular rec-run TC, capturing via analog would have been an option, but alas. It's actually for this reason I've decided to never use free-run code on a project again.

One way you might be able to save the day is do an MPEGSTREAM convert on a whole roll, and then correct the timecode in FCP for the entire roll media. Dicey, but should work.

Ron Pfister · May 4th, 2006, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I've had the problem, and it seems intrinsic to the way HDV is handled at the moment.

Thanks for your feedback, Nate! I arrived at the same conclusion. Seems that the least you lose is 2s12f at the beginning of every clip in HDV (that's with 1080i50 and Pre-roll set to 1 second).

Quote:

It's actually for this reason I've decided to never use free-run code on a project again.

I'm not sure I agree. This is the first multi-cam shoot I did with synced time-code, and - limitations aside - Multiclip-editing with synced time-code is very efficient and fun! As long as you know about the frames you will lose at the beginning of each clip, you can account for it during the shoot - hopefully.

Quote:

One way you might be able to save the day is do an MPEGSTREAM convert on a whole roll, and then correct the timecode in FCP for the entire roll media. Dicey, but should work.

That road would have meant lots of manual labor re-creating time-code. In fact, HDV-capture (sans AIC) in FCP was the only method I could find that preserved free-run TC properly.

Nathan Troutman · May 4th, 2006, 05:35 PM

You should be able to capture the entire tape as a single clip if you do this: In the user preferences setting under the Final Cut Pro tab there is a setting on the first screen that says "On Timecode Break". There is a pull-down tab box with three options: make new clip (which is the default setting), abort capture, and warn after capture. Select the warn after capture. This will allow you to use the capture now function which just has you manually press play on your deck or camera and then Final cut records everthing it gets until you stop it. The entire tape should be there broken timecode and all. Hope this helps. When I'm doing a multicam shoot I make sure nobody hits stop until the shows over or they need to put in a new tape.

Nathan Troutman · May 4th, 2006, 05:35 PM

Sorry for the double posting

Ron Pfister · May 5th, 2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Troutman

You should be able to capture the entire tape as a single clip if you do this: In the user preferences setting under the Final Cut Pro tab there is a setting on the first screen that says "On Timecode Break". There is a pull-down tab box with three options: make new clip (which is the default setting), abort capture, and warn after capture. Select the warn after capture.

I thought the same, but no dice - FCP aborts the capture after the first TC-break. I tried this with the Sony FireWire and the Uncontrollable Device presets, and neither worked. Was I missing something?

Nathan Troutman · May 5th, 2006, 08:09 AM

Crap!! Well I don't think you missed something. That was my only advice. Maybe contact Apple and they can come up with some work around. If you do figure it out, make sure you post it here. I'm sure it would be helpful.

May 2nd, 2006, 12:24 PM	#1
Ron Pfister Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Basel area, Switzerland Posts: 285	HDV Capture - Losing Frames or Time-Code Hello all! I'm trying to do a continuous FireWire tape-capture of HDV-footage shot w/ free-run time-code, and can't seem to find a way around the following problem: - If I use the native HDV 1080i50 setup, FCP creates new clips at each time-code break, but cuts off the pre-roll durations (which can't be set below 1 second - why???) of each clip. Free-run time-code is preserved. - If I use the Apple Intermediate Codec HDV 1080i50 setup, FCP also creates new clips beginning at each time code break, but doesn't cut off anything at the beginning of each clip (which is what I want). Unfortunately, time-code is not preserved. Is there a way to get the best of both worlds? Time-code is important in this capture, as it's multi-cam shoot. Some takes have cruical content at the very beginning, so loosing the pre-roll footage is a problem, too. Any hints would be wildly appreciated - it's urgent... TIA, Ron Setup: Quad w/ OS X 10.4.6 and FCP 5.0.4 __________________ Ronald P. Pfister halimedia - digital solutions and services www.halimedia.com

May 2nd, 2006, 02:28 PM	#2
Ron Pfister Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Basel area, Switzerland Posts: 285	For clarification: I'd also be happy capturing each tape as one clip, and then creating subclips from there. I haven't found a way to do this, however. Any ideas? I'd also gladly look at other capture workflow. I've tried DVHSCap and HDVxDV. Both create .m2t-files, which FCP can't handle. Going from DVHSCap to MPEG Streamclip, I lose time-code. HDVxDV preserves time-code in some way, but it definitely doesn't correspond to the fre-run tc on tape. __________________ Ronald P. Pfister halimedia - digital solutions and services www.halimedia.com

May 3rd, 2006, 08:49 AM	#3
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I personally don't know of any way to do what you'd like. I've had the problem, and it seems intrinsic to the way HDV is handled at the moment. If you had used regular rec-run TC, capturing via analog would have been an option, but alas. It's actually for this reason I've decided to never use free-run code on a project again. One way you might be able to save the day is do an MPEGSTREAM convert on a whole roll, and then correct the timecode in FCP for the entire roll media. Dicey, but should work. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

May 4th, 2006, 05:35 PM	#5
Nathan Troutman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hoboken, NJ (New York metro area) Posts: 105	Really big pain You should be able to capture the entire tape as a single clip if you do this: In the user preferences setting under the Final Cut Pro tab there is a setting on the first screen that says "On Timecode Break". There is a pull-down tab box with three options: make new clip (which is the default setting), abort capture, and warn after capture. Select the warn after capture. This will allow you to use the capture now function which just has you manually press play on your deck or camera and then Final cut records everthing it gets until you stop it. The entire tape should be there broken timecode and all. Hope this helps. When I'm doing a multicam shoot I make sure nobody hits stop until the shows over or they need to put in a new tape.

May 4th, 2006, 05:35 PM	#6
Nathan Troutman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hoboken, NJ (New York metro area) Posts: 105	Really big pain Sorry for the double posting Last edited by Nathan Troutman; May 4th, 2006 at 06:09 PM.

May 5th, 2006, 08:09 AM	#8
Nathan Troutman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hoboken, NJ (New York metro area) Posts: 105	Crap!! Well I don't think you missed something. That was my only advice. Maybe contact Apple and they can come up with some work around. If you do figure it out, make sure you post it here. I'm sure it would be helpful.