Best way to downsample from HD to SD on Final Cut Pro

[Scott Jaco]

Hello,

I understand that HD downsampled to SD retains some of the clarity of the original source footage.

Is it just better to shoot with my HD100 in standard def until a deliverable HD format is available to give to clients?

I just found out that that the HD100 does not downsample via Firewire. The only way to downsample HD to SD is thru the component output. I would like to avoid any analog/digital conversion and keep it all digital.

If I choose to shot in HD, it sounds like I am stuck editing in HD. How do you go about downsampling it so that you can give your client a DVD?

I will be using FCP 5 when the Universal version is released this month so I haven't had a chance to experiment.

Thanks for any tips!

Scott

[Tom Chaney]

Scott,

We just shot a High School basketball game (that we usually shoot in DV) and we shot it in HiDef.

We captured it with Lumiere HD and then converted it to standard DV for editing in FCP.

The footage is very nice, and better than the same that we would have shot with an XL2.

This gives you both DV today, and Hi Def Masters. (What if one of the players on the team ends up in the NBA?)

Hope this helps (I can't say enough about this camera)

Tom Chaney

PS - Rumors are that FCP 6 will be able to handle this camera without plug ins.

[Council Bradshaw]

Scott,
I've yet to deliever anything in HD. However everything I've shot has been in HDV. FCP 5 will allow you to edit in native 720p 30HDV. Once you've completed your base edit(no graphics) then drop that sequence into a SD sequence of your choice. I recommend 10 bit uncompressed. Then add graphics. It'll need rendering but man it looks sweet.

[Scott Jaco]

That makes sense. I’ve decided the best idea would be to shoot everything in High Definition. I will capture and edit in HD as well. When I’m finished, I will transfer the timeline back to the camera as a High Definition Master on “MiniDV” tape to give to my customer.

I will then use FCP’s DVD authoring software to downsample the timeline and burn a Standard Definition DVD.

I feel the main benefit to this is that when the consumer decides on an HD format, I can simply drop the MiniDV master into my timeline and burn an HD DVD (I’ll have an external HD DVD burner by then I hope)

There will be no need to re-render each piece of footage and effect seperatly w/ an EDL. Everything will already be edited and ready to go which will save a ton of time down the road.

Let me know what you think of this plan.

Thanks,
Scott

[Maurice Jolly]

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

That makes sense. I’ve decided the best idea would be to shoot everything in High Definition. I will capture and edit in HD as well. When I’m finished, I will transfer the timeline back to the camera as a High Definition Master on “MiniDV” tape to give to my customer.

I will then use FCP’s DVD authoring software to downsample the timeline and burn a Standard Definition DVD.

I feel the main benefit to this is that when the consumer decides on an HD format, I can simply drop the MiniDV master into my timeline and burn an HD DVD (I’ll have an external HD DVD burner by then I hope)

There will be no need to re-render each piece of footage and effect seperatly w/ an EDL. Everything will already be edited and ready to go which will save a ton of time down the road.

Let me know what you think of this plan.

Thanks,
Scott

scott,
what council said about taking finished timeline project and converting to 10 bit uncompressed is correct. i've done it and after trying different ways this is by far the best looking hd to sd footage i've seen. the trick is to send the timeline to compressor and do it there, then import that quicktime file into dvd studio pro. by the way, council i'm from greensboro. graduated from grimsley in 79. what up homey!

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Council Bradshaw

Scott,
I've yet to deliever anything in HD. However everything I've shot has been in HDV. FCP 5 will allow you to edit in native 720p 30HDV. Once you've completed your base edit(no graphics) then drop that sequence into a SD sequence of your choice. I recommend 10 bit uncompressed. Then add graphics. It'll need rendering but man it looks sweet.

This is the kind of simple, straight ahead advice that makes this place great.
So many people take so many convoluted routes to conversion for broadcast.
FCP makes that very simple.
And the 10 bit uncompressed Compressor approach is great advice too. (you can do it directly from FCP through Quicktime conversion in the Export menu as well)

[Scott Jaco]

Do I need Compressor to get good conversion or can FCP do decent downsampling?

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

Do I need Compressor to get good conversion or can FCP do decent downsampling?

Well Maurice and Council are talking about two different approaches.
Council is recommending capturing and editing natively in a FCP HDV30p timeline.
Then when you're edit is done you create a new timeline using the Easy Setup pulldown (make sure you have "show all" checked) and choose 10bit uncompressed NTSC (or PAL).
Now drop your 30p sequence into that timeline.
Once you render that you'll have great looking SD of your HD edit.

Maurice is recommending taking your HDV30p sequence and exprting it to Compressor and doing a 10bit uncompressed conversion for DVD.

I hope I didn't mischaracterize your thoughts on this Council and Maurice (I just dig writing "Council and Maurice"...be a great name for a soul act).

Either way Scott, you've got both abilities with FCP.

[Maurice Jolly]

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

Well Maurice and Council are talking about two different approaches.
Council is recommending capturing and editing natively in a FCP HDV30p timeline.
Then when you're edit is done you create a new timeline using the Easy Setup pulldown (make sure you have "show all" checked) and choose 10bit uncompressed NTSC (or PAL).
Now drop your 30p sequence into that timeline.
Once you render that you'll have great looking SD of your HD edit.

Maurice is recommending taking your HDV30p sequence and exprting it to Compressor and doing a 10bit uncompressed conversion for DVD.

I hope I didn't mischaracterize your thoughts on this Council and Maurice (I just dig writing "Council and Maurice"...be a great name for a soul act).

Either way Scott, you've got both abilities with FCP.

thanks jim. a soul act or a feature film. (hmmmm you hear that council?)
and the funny thing is that council lives in greensboro, nc (i think) and i grew up there. anyway, back to the subject at hand. i did a little test of my own early this morning. taking the finished 30p timeline, (about one minute) and exporting to quicktime conversion to 10bit uncompressed then imported into studio pro. answer: did not like the final product on dvd. it looked like all the downconversions i've seen. i'm telling you, export to compressor, go to advance on the dropdown box, click 10bit uncompressed and finish going thru the motions. import that quicktime file into studio pro and watch what happens. it's the closest thing to dvcpro50 that i've seen without shooting dvcpro50. nothing against you council, it's just that i think the (compressor-10bit uncompressed-studio pro) is the best downconversion method that i personally have seen come out of fcp5. there might be other ways, but i'm sticking with this one. it ain't broke, and i sure as hell ain't gonna fix it. (i know, ain't isn't a word) WHATEVER. anyway, hope this helps scott.

[Paul Frederick]

I may be interpreting Council's work flow differently. He's not saying to export to Quicktime. He's saying edit your sequence in HD, then open a new SD sequence and drag the HD sequence into that new timeline and render. Am I correct? I don't like the way compressor downconverts either. I'm still looking for the best solution so I appreciate this thread! I recently posted a similar question and someone mentioned doing it in After Effects.... Search that thread for an alternate method.

[Maurice Jolly]

Originally Posted by Paul Frederick

I may be interpreting Council's work flow differently. He's not saying to export to Quicktime. He's saying edit your sequence in HD, then open a new SD sequence and drag the HD sequence into that new timeline and render. Am I correct? I don't like the way compressor downconverts either. I'm still looking for the best solution so I appreciate this thread! I recently posted a similar question and someone mentioned doing it in After Effects.... Search that thread for an alternate method.

paul, you're right. however, that's too many steps for me. comressor then 10bit uncompressed for me. i love the look on dvd.

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Paul Frederick

I may be interpreting Council's work flow differently. He's not saying to export to Quicktime. He's saying edit your sequence in HD, then open a new SD sequence and drag the HD sequence into that new timeline and render. Am I correct?

Yes, that's the method we're both talking about. I added that you can also export to 10 bit as Quicktime conversion.
In other words, there are three ways to get your HDV to 10bit uncompressed SD using FCP5.
Maurice is saying that exporting to Compressor and choosing 10 bit uncompressed is the best quality for DVD.
I do a lot of broadcast work and unfortunately that means distributing on BetaSP which means coming out of the timeline and out component. For that I prefer the first method...editing native HDV 30p and dropping that sequence into a 10 bit uncompresed timeline and outputting to tape.