Can't view external video in HDV!!!

[Jon Fordham]

I spent the afternoon capturing some 1080/60i HDV footage from a Sony FX1 in FCP5. Everything worked great. I was very pleased with how easily it flowed.

But after I had everything captured, I started to throw some footage on the timeline to cut a couple shots together, and it wasn't mirroring on my external monitor through the Firewire. I checked and double checked my settings on both the FX1 and in FCP. I noticed the the View Extrenal Video was set to OFF. I clicked view ALL FRAMES. Nothing. I clicked the View External video again, and noticed the check was still next to the OFF. I clicked ALL FRAMES again. Nothing. Despite my repeated clicking of ALL FRAMES, it refuses to budge. The check stays on OFF. I can't for the life of me figure out why FCP won't switch to ALL FRAMES when I click it.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Dylan Pank]

HDV can't be monitored over firewire - it doesn't work like DV or DVCproHD in that respect, you'll need a third party card that can decode HDV. I think the Kona can do it.

[Jon Fordham]

What?! Why the hell not?!?! That sucks. I can export back to tape though right? Or am I going to have problems with that as well?

This doesn't make sense to me. If you can Firewire it in, and (presumably) can Firewire it back to tape, then why can't it be viewed live looping through an HDV device?

Any thoughts on why it works this way? Any possibility of it working differently in future FCP versions?

[David Newman]

With a lot more computing speed and future software upgrade it can be done. The reason is DV and HDV are very different. A simple cut in DV can easily be sent over firewire without introducing a CPU load. However, a simple cut in HDV rarely exists, the GOP (Group of Pictures) structure will require up to 15 frames around the cut point to be rendered before it can be sent over Firewire. As MPEG is an asymetric codec, it take tens times (or more) CPU time to encode than to decode; today your computer is already having a hard enough time decoding one or two streams (without any encoding loads.) There is be no native HDV editors with Firewire monitoring (without hardware encoders) for years.

[Carlos Rodriguez]

Can the cineform codec be previewed out in any way to an external monitor realtime? Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[David Newman]

Well yes, but in fairness anyone can as long as you aren't try to push non-rendered edit data nwo firewire. CineForm like Canopus and others can output to YUV analog HD outputs (via graphics cards or custom hardware.)

[Carlos Rodriguez]

So for example, would a card like the geforce fx-6600GT work? It's got a BOB with component outputs. Just for something like on the inexpensive consumer end.

[David Newman]

I have tested Matrox Parhelia AVPe and NVidia FX540 for HD component timeline monitoring. For SD monitor most dual-head cards work. Basically if you can play an file in MediaPlayer and have a second video output show the image (just the video part), you graphics card will work with Aspect HD.

[Heath McKnight]

Sorry to hear it, Jon. I always cut with no external monitor (don't ask), but I'll test it tomorrow with my G5.

heath

ps-Buy a new cell phone!

[Guy Cochran]

There's a converter from AJA called the HDP. Watch the product manager explain it rather well from the NAB tradeshow floor in this QuickTime video-
It's the second video down "NAB 2005 - Final Cut Pro 5 / AJA - Ted Schilowitz" http://dvestore.com/theatre/index.html


You'll want a Cinema Display, Dell or other compatible DVI monitor to output to. http://aja.com/hdp.htm

[Daniel Rudd]

Originally Posted by David Newman

I have tested Matrox Parhelia AVPe and NVidia FX540 for HD component timeline monitoring. For SD monitor most dual-head cards work. Basically if you can play an file in MediaPlayer and have a second video output show the image (just the video part), you graphics card will work with Aspect HD.

Our HD monitor can only input SD through it's component inputs. Digital HD goes in through an HDMI input, and analog HD through a vga input.

The Parhelia seems to be finicky about what is plugged into it.
MY tech guy describes the issue as follows:

(Tony writes):
The Matrox Parhelia APVe video card has the ability to output to 1xVGA, 1xDVI, and 1xHDV (Component) video source all at the same time. The adapter cable for the component output converts a VGA Female output to a Component Female output. If you setup the card to work this way, and then disconnect the adapter cable and connect a VGA cable directly from the cards output to your TV input (our TV has a VGA input for HD Video), it will work to output HD video to your TV.

The problem is that, as soon as you reset your computer, the card reverts to a standard definition (composite) output, and you loose your HD output abilities until you reconnect the adapter cable and resetup the card.

It seems that this is just a software issue, and that the card is fully capable of working in this fashion, but the software thinks that you do not have a HD monitor attached, so it reverts to its default state.

>>>Daniel Writes: David or others. Any experience with this? How are you guys using your Parhelia. Anyone using a DVI to HDMI cable?
Daneil

[Dylan Pank]

Originally Posted by Jon Fordham

What?! Why the hell not?!?! That sucks. I can export back to tape though right? Or am I going to have problems with that as well?

This doesn't make sense to me. If you can Firewire it in, and (presumably) can Firewire it back to tape, then why can't it be viewed live looping through an HDV device?

Any thoughts on why it works this way? Any possibility of it working differently in future FCP versions?

Because of the MPEG2 structure, the demuxing, remuxing and GOP handling that would need to go on can't be done over firewire, yet, maybe one day. The thing is, what FCP (or any other native HDV editor) is dealing with in not actually true HDV but program streams or even elementary streams of MPEG2 1080i/720p, so the camera won't recognise it as HDV anymore should you try and shove it out the firewire port.

Yes you can export to tape but it requires a "conform" stage - ie it renders any GOPS that have edits in the middle of them.

[Heath McKnight]

Or use a capture card from Black Magic, for instance.

heath