Capturing 24p/16:9 with Final Cut 5 at DVinfo.net

Jennifer Moody · August 8th, 2005, 09:17 AM

I just purchased my XL2 a few days ago and had my first shoot with it this weekend. I shot in 24p and 16:9 widescreen but now I am having problems capturing it with Final Cut Pro 5. What Sequence/Capture settings do I need to implement in order to capture this footage? I'm new to the camera and I haven't had any luck finding information about this specific setup.

Thanks!
Jennifer

Greg Boston · August 8th, 2005, 10:01 AM

Jennifer,

It depends on which 24P mode you used. If you used the regular 24p and not 24Pa which is a 2:3:3:2 cadence, you should tell FCP to use DV-NTSC 48Khz and be sure to check the checkbox for 'anamorphic' since you used 16:9 mode. Leave the dimensions at 720x480 because that's what the video actually is.

Now, if you shot in standard 24p, you should leave the editing timebase at 29.97. If you happened to use 24pa, set the timebase for 23.98. Keep in mind that you have both capture settings and sequence settings. Make sure the sequence setting matches your capture settings.

good luck,

-gb-

I am going to move this thread to NLE Editing on the Mac because your question has more to do with the software than the camera.

Jennifer Moody · August 8th, 2005, 10:11 AM

Sorry for putting the message in the wrong forum.

Thanks for your help. Forgive my ignorance, but what is 24pa? I just turned the Frame Rate dial to "24p."

Greg Boston · August 8th, 2005, 10:29 AM

Then you shot in regular 24p mode. The 24p 'advanced' is turned on via the menu in the camera. It records the video in such a way that it can be pulled down to 24 fps for editing that leaves 24 intact frames. The method you used is a different method that has to reconstruct some of the video from adjacent frames to create the 24fps. This is the method for eventual use in NTSC broadcast because it is easily returned to 60i video during broadcast.

If you intend to eventually have a 'film out' made from your work, or you are going to author to DVD, or put it on the Web and want a true 24fps intact, then the 24pa mode is used. If you do use this, be advised that the motion will look very strobe-like when played back in camera. This method is edited on a 23.98 timebase as opposed to the standard I mentioned above which is edited on the 29.97 timebase.

You can go to http://www.adamwilt.com and find the section on 24p. He has a very good graphic and text article on the difference between the two methods. I recommend you read this, and re-read if necessary until you understand it. It will help you make informed decisions in the future about which method you want to shoot in.

regards,

-gb-

Greg Boston · August 8th, 2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer Moody

Sorry for putting the message in the wrong forum.

Thanks for your help. Forgive my ignorance, but what is 24pa? I just turned the Frame Rate dial to "24p."

Don't worry Jennifer, that's what we're here for. Go ahead and register because you will like this forum and as a new XL-2 owner, will want to check in often. And finally, welcome to DV-INFO.NET!

-gb-

Boyd Ostroff · August 8th, 2005, 12:26 PM

(I'm assuming FCP 5 is like FCP 4.5 in this regard...)

If you chose "Easy Setup..." from the Final Cut Pro menu, notice there's a checkbox which says "show all." Be sure to click on this. Now then you use the dropdown menu "Setup For:" you will se many more options, including those for 24p. If in doubt about what they do, choose one from the menu. Now you will see a summary of everything it sets in the box below.

Jennifer Moody · August 12th, 2005, 10:23 AM

I captured my 16:9 footage into Final Cut (thanks for all of your help.) Now I need to move the clips into After Effects for keying and compositing. I imported the clip, then created a new composition to be NTSC Anamorphic, and turned pixel aspect ratio correction on. However, when I rendered the file it was "squeezed." I will eventually put the AE renders back into Final Cut for export in the web and I can't seem to get rid of the "squeezed" look. Is this the proper way to work with anamorphic footage or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks,
Jennifer

Josh Mellicker · August 13th, 2005, 01:58 AM

Double-click the clip in the FCP timeline, then go to the Motion tab and click the red "X" next to "Distort". This should restore the 16:9 aspect ratio.

To do this for multiple clips, select the clip you fixed, "Copy", then select all the other clips you want to fix and choose "Paste Attributes", then choose "Distort".

FCP wants to automatically alter the aspect ratio of imported clips in some cases. :(

Also, I hope you rendered your After Effects clips as uncompressed, not DV!

Jennifer Moody · August 13th, 2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Mellicker

Also, I hope you rendered your After Effects clips as uncompressed, not DV!

Thanks for your help. That solved my ratio problem, but I am wondering why I should render them uncompressed when FCP has to render them to NTSC anyway?

Jay Moffat · August 24th, 2005, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennifer Moody

Thanks for your help. That solved my ratio problem, but I am wondering why I should render them uncompressed when FCP has to render them to NTSC anyway?

Not sure if you've had a reply to this yet, but to clarify this for you: Compression and NTSC are not intrinsically related. NTSC is a broadcast/video size standard (like PAL and SECAM) and compression relates to an algorithm that processes footage reducing it's file size with a resultant loss in image quality. Much like JPEG compressed images on the internet.

For off-line work it is quite accceptable to use compressed footage to work with but for all on-line work, the footage should be uncompressed, and all the compositing work should be too. If you need to compress the final edit for uploading to the web etc then this should be done right at the end. Also keep in mind should you output your final edit to DVD, this will be compressed as well, so you want your final 'Master Copy' edit to be as clean as possible.

So as a rule of thumb, your online work should always be uncompressed.

Hope this helps

J

August 24th, 2005, 06:57 PM

Jennifer,

In addition to the great info on this thread -

You may find the thread below handy. My thoughts were similar to yours when I bought my XL2 a few weeks ago - Just turn it to 24p and go. But there are a few more factors than that. I've got the exact set up that you do and here's a thread that helped me a few weeks ago. Here's that link:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=2%3A3%3A3%3A2

Like I said, I think all the info here answered your questions, but just in case you wanted a little more info...

August 8th, 2005, 09:17 AM	#1
Jennifer Moody New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 7	Capturing 24p/16:9 with Final Cut 5 I just purchased my XL2 a few days ago and had my first shoot with it this weekend. I shot in 24p and 16:9 widescreen but now I am having problems capturing it with Final Cut Pro 5. What Sequence/Capture settings do I need to implement in order to capture this footage? I'm new to the camera and I haven't had any luck finding information about this specific setup. Thanks! Jennifer

August 24th, 2005, 06:57 PM	#11
Guest Posts: n/a	Additional Info on 24p(a) settings Jennifer, In addition to the great info on this thread - You may find the thread below handy. My thoughts were similar to yours when I bought my XL2 a few weeks ago - Just turn it to 24p and go. But there are a few more factors than that. I've got the exact set up that you do and here's a thread that helped me a few weeks ago. Here's that link: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=2%3A3%3A3%3A2 Like I said, I think all the info here answered your questions, but just in case you wanted a little more info...

August 8th, 2005, 10:01 AM	#2
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Jennifer, It depends on which 24P mode you used. If you used the regular 24p and not 24Pa which is a 2:3:3:2 cadence, you should tell FCP to use DV-NTSC 48Khz and be sure to check the checkbox for 'anamorphic' since you used 16:9 mode. Leave the dimensions at 720x480 because that's what the video actually is. Now, if you shot in standard 24p, you should leave the editing timebase at 29.97. If you happened to use 24pa, set the timebase for 23.98. Keep in mind that you have both capture settings and sequence settings. Make sure the sequence setting matches your capture settings. good luck, -gb- I am going to move this thread to NLE Editing on the Mac because your question has more to do with the software than the camera.

August 8th, 2005, 10:11 AM	#3
Jennifer Moody New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 7	Sorry for putting the message in the wrong forum. Thanks for your help. Forgive my ignorance, but what is 24pa? I just turned the Frame Rate dial to "24p."

August 8th, 2005, 10:29 AM	#4
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Then you shot in regular 24p mode. The 24p 'advanced' is turned on via the menu in the camera. It records the video in such a way that it can be pulled down to 24 fps for editing that leaves 24 intact frames. The method you used is a different method that has to reconstruct some of the video from adjacent frames to create the 24fps. This is the method for eventual use in NTSC broadcast because it is easily returned to 60i video during broadcast. If you intend to eventually have a 'film out' made from your work, or you are going to author to DVD, or put it on the Web and want a true 24fps intact, then the 24pa mode is used. If you do use this, be advised that the motion will look very strobe-like when played back in camera. This method is edited on a 23.98 timebase as opposed to the standard I mentioned above which is edited on the 29.97 timebase. You can go to http://www.adamwilt.com and find the section on 24p. He has a very good graphic and text article on the difference between the two methods. I recommend you read this, and re-read if necessary until you understand it. It will help you make informed decisions in the future about which method you want to shoot in. regards, -gb-

August 8th, 2005, 12:26 PM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,797	(I'm assuming FCP 5 is like FCP 4.5 in this regard...) If you chose "Easy Setup..." from the Final Cut Pro menu, notice there's a checkbox which says "show all." Be sure to click on this. Now then you use the dropdown menu "Setup For:" you will se many more options, including those for 24p. If in doubt about what they do, choose one from the menu. Now you will see a summary of everything it sets in the box below.

August 12th, 2005, 10:23 AM	#7
Jennifer Moody New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 7	I captured my 16:9 footage into Final Cut (thanks for all of your help.) Now I need to move the clips into After Effects for keying and compositing. I imported the clip, then created a new composition to be NTSC Anamorphic, and turned pixel aspect ratio correction on. However, when I rendered the file it was "squeezed." I will eventually put the AE renders back into Final Cut for export in the web and I can't seem to get rid of the "squeezed" look. Is this the proper way to work with anamorphic footage or am I doing something wrong? Thanks, Jennifer

August 13th, 2005, 01:58 AM	#8
Josh Mellicker DV Creators Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 91	Double-click the clip in the FCP timeline, then go to the Motion tab and click the red "X" next to "Distort". This should restore the 16:9 aspect ratio. To do this for multiple clips, select the clip you fixed, "Copy", then select all the other clips you want to fix and choose "Paste Attributes", then choose "Distort". FCP wants to automatically alter the aspect ratio of imported clips in some cases. :( Also, I hope you rendered your After Effects clips as uncompressed, not DV!