I'm having all kinds of trouble making a DVD

John Meeks · November 25th, 2010, 11:06 AM

It's not actually the time of 10 minutes, it's how much of it has been played. I can pause/unpause during that time, and the problem starts at the same point at the DVD. I can pause and single-step through the DVD to see the interlacing clearly. This leads me to believe it's a software bug type thing.

William Hohauser · November 26th, 2010, 08:44 AM

So....

As we have asked before, is it at a specific point in the video (example: 10 minutes, 22 seconds and 12 frames in the program)?

Is there visual motion happening at this point in the program that hasn't occurred before in the program?

Apple DVD player doesn't deinterlace so when it plays interlaced footage on a progressive computer monitor, things can look ugly.

John Meeks · November 26th, 2010, 11:22 AM

It is a specific point. If I just play the video, it happens at about 8:20. However, if I jump to, say, 7:30 (using the slider at the bottom in DVD Player) it doesn't occur, only if I've played the whole video to that point. If I've jumped ahead, it doesn't occur until another 5-10 minutes of playing later.

There isn't really any difference in the motion, it's a talking-head type of video, and the problem is very easy to spot, so I'm not just missing it because of lack of motion.

It's all progressive. I have de-interlacing turned off.

If I single-frame through it, I can see that it's displaying one field from one frame, and the other field from the *next* frame, I can see on the edges of a moving object that the even fields in one frame line up with the odd fields in the next.

The Apple DVD Player seems to be mixing fields from different frames together.

William Hohauser · November 26th, 2010, 12:25 PM

Yes, it is. What is happening is that each progressive 60p frame is being treated as a field in 60i. This is an issue that has come up in these forums before and if you do a search you might find a good solution. I have never dealt with this issue in 60p, so I don't have first hand experience and am reluctant to give you theoretical solutions.

For whatever reason the Apple DVD player accentuates the interlacing issues. What does it do with de-interlacing on? Have you tried VLC? It's free and one of the best media players around.

John Meeks · November 26th, 2010, 04:44 PM

I can set compressor to treat each 60p frame as a field in 60i, and it looks good on an old TV, but not on a computer. However, I don't have it set that way, and that's not what it's doing.

The problem occurs exactly the same way whether deinterlacing is turned on or off in the player.

As I mentioned before, if I play the .VOB files directly off the DVD (with the VLC player, like you suggest), it plays flawlessly. It looks better than it does in the DVD player even when the player is not acting up. This is why I'm almost positive that it's an issue with the Apple DVD player.

The player isn't just accentuating an existing interlacing issue, it's incorrectly displaying fields together, from different frames, that shouldn't be displayed together.

In addition, the player seems to be incorrectly detecting reverse 3:2 pulldown and displays small portions of the video incorrectly because of this. However, it's not very noticeable, it's really only visible when single-stepping through the video. The bigger problem is the mixing of fields from different frames, which now that I think about it, may be caused when it switches back from this mode.

If you don't believe me, play a video until you see the "interlacing issues" and then single-step through the frames, and you'll see that moving objects align from one field in a displayed frame to the other field in the next.

Yossi Margolin · November 29th, 2010, 07:47 PM

I just had what sounds like the same issue with a DVD i was working on, but on PC, not Mac

The fix for me was to use a different encoder.

November 26th, 2010, 08:44 AM	#32
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	So.... As we have asked before, is it at a specific point in the video (example: 10 minutes, 22 seconds and 12 frames in the program)? Is there visual motion happening at this point in the program that hasn't occurred before in the program? Apple DVD player doesn't deinterlace so when it plays interlaced footage on a progressive computer monitor, things can look ugly. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

November 26th, 2010, 12:25 PM	#34
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Yes, it is. What is happening is that each progressive 60p frame is being treated as a field in 60i. This is an issue that has come up in these forums before and if you do a search you might find a good solution. I have never dealt with this issue in 60p, so I don't have first hand experience and am reluctant to give you theoretical solutions. For whatever reason the Apple DVD player accentuates the interlacing issues. What does it do with de-interlacing on? Have you tried VLC? It's free and one of the best media players around. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

November 25th, 2010, 11:06 AM	#31
John Meeks Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middletown, NY, USA Posts: 106	It's not actually the time of 10 minutes, it's how much of it has been played. I can pause/unpause during that time, and the problem starts at the same point at the DVD. I can pause and single-step through the DVD to see the interlacing clearly. This leads me to believe it's a software bug type thing.

November 26th, 2010, 11:22 AM	#33
John Meeks Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middletown, NY, USA Posts: 106	It is a specific point. If I just play the video, it happens at about 8:20. However, if I jump to, say, 7:30 (using the slider at the bottom in DVD Player) it doesn't occur, only if I've played the whole video to that point. If I've jumped ahead, it doesn't occur until another 5-10 minutes of playing later. There isn't really any difference in the motion, it's a talking-head type of video, and the problem is very easy to spot, so I'm not just missing it because of lack of motion. It's all progressive. I have de-interlacing turned off. If I single-frame through it, I can see that it's displaying one field from one frame, and the other field from the next frame, I can see on the edges of a moving object that the even fields in one frame line up with the odd fields in the next. The Apple DVD Player seems to be mixing fields from different frames together.

November 26th, 2010, 04:44 PM	#35
John Meeks Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middletown, NY, USA Posts: 106	I can set compressor to treat each 60p frame as a field in 60i, and it looks good on an old TV, but not on a computer. However, I don't have it set that way, and that's not what it's doing. The problem occurs exactly the same way whether deinterlacing is turned on or off in the player. As I mentioned before, if I play the .VOB files directly off the DVD (with the VLC player, like you suggest), it plays flawlessly. It looks better than it does in the DVD player even when the player is not acting up. This is why I'm almost positive that it's an issue with the Apple DVD player. The player isn't just accentuating an existing interlacing issue, it's incorrectly displaying fields together, from different frames, that shouldn't be displayed together. In addition, the player seems to be incorrectly detecting reverse 3:2 pulldown and displays small portions of the video incorrectly because of this. However, it's not very noticeable, it's really only visible when single-stepping through the video. The bigger problem is the mixing of fields from different frames, which now that I think about it, may be caused when it switches back from this mode. If you don't believe me, play a video until you see the "interlacing issues" and then single-step through the frames, and you'll see that moving objects align from one field in a displayed frame to the other field in the next.

November 29th, 2010, 07:47 PM	#36
Yossi Margolin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 85	I just had what sounds like the same issue with a DVD i was working on, but on PC, not Mac The fix for me was to use a different encoder.