FCP equivalent of Vegas' "grouping" function? at DVinfo.net

Josh Bass · April 29th, 2010, 04:06 PM

In Vegas, you can grab any assortment of unrelated video and audio clips in the timeline, and hit "g" (or maybe it's "shift g" now) and create a "group", meaning that when you do ripple edits, slide things around, etc., these clips all move together.

I'm assuming there's a similar function in FCP, but my research has come to a dead end. Merged clips seems to be something else entirely, and at any rate, to make one, I have to mark in i/o point in EACH clip I want to group together?

And linking only seems to work with one audio and video clip at a time. . .if I select one video clip and multiple audio clips (even on the same track), the option to link is greyed out.

Is there a solution?

Dean Sensui · April 29th, 2010, 06:24 PM

Josh, by "merged" I'm guessing you mean "nested"? You can nest a bunch of clips but they'll inhabit the sequence as a single clip. You can still add clips into the sequence around it.

But if you want to keep that group of clips distinct within the sequence, yet have them move as though they're strictly connected to one another, I don't think that's a feature in FCP.

If it doesn't exist, you should send in a suggestion via FCP's built-in feedback feature. It's how Apple finds out about what users want in the program.

Josh Bass · April 29th, 2010, 06:31 PM

No, there's a separate function called "merged clips". I read about it but still don't quite understand it.

I can't believe there's no grouping analog in FCP. That's. . .insane.

William Hohauser · April 29th, 2010, 07:20 PM

I don't understand the way "grouping" is utilized in Vegas from your description. Are you talking about nested sequences which can be edited around and altered internally? I edit this way all the time and it works fine. This way you can edit a segment of a larger project and not worry about it getting changed accidentally when you work on the larger project. Grouping in layout programs takes multiple elements and basically locks them together so they can be moved around as a unit. Nesting in FCP does the same thing.

Josh Bass · April 29th, 2010, 07:44 PM

No, no.

There's no nesting involved.

Say you're looking at the timeline. You have multiple video clips and audio clips, across multiple tracks.

Grouping is where you select some of them, and create a group. That group moves together. Sync is forced. You grab and drag one of those clips, all the others in that group move with it. You can't move any of the grouped video or audio clips "out of sync" with each other unless you specifically remove them from the group or ungroup them.

It's the same way a piece of video and audio that originated with each other (say digitized from a tape or card) moves, accept instead of just one video and audio clip, it can be a whole bunch of clips across multiple tracks.

Or, it's like when you select a whole bunch of clips and move them together. Except, even when you don't select that whole bunch (if you only select one), they always move together anyway.

Shaughan Flynn · April 29th, 2010, 08:01 PM

Merging clips in FCP is typically used for (but not limited to) syncing double system media.

For example. You boom a scene and record the audio on a digital recorder. At the start of the shot you slate it with a clap board. In FCP you double click the audio file and scrub to the point of the "clap" and set the in point. Then double click the corresponding video clip, scrub to the frame where the sticks come together on the slate and set the in point.

Then select both the audio and video clips, right (option) click them and select Merge Clips. You will then be prompted for how to merge them. Select In points and click OK.

Now you will have a new footage reference file that you can use that has the separate audio linked in and synced.

Tim Kay · April 29th, 2010, 08:31 PM

i know what you're talking about. I used the merge feature all the time and loved it in Vegas. I see the groups button but I don't know what exactly it does because once I unclick a group they dont move as one. Which is great when clips are scattered around the timeline.

I keep highlighting a bunch of clips and select link ( cmmd L) but it doesn't work :)

William Hohauser · April 29th, 2010, 10:42 PM

Then grouping does not exist in FCP the way you describe it. I use nesting to achieve the same effect but I can see how it would be useful outside of nesting.

Andy Mees · April 30th, 2010, 06:41 AM

Sorry Josh, I don;t work with Vegas but I do work with some other NLEs that have a grouping function as you describe, unfortunately FCP does NOT have this function ... if only.

Sherif Choudhry · May 1st, 2010, 03:27 AM

i was long time vegas user but moved over to macbook pro and FCP, which for me was the right thing to do. But its interesting that if i want to do a quick edit of a short I will go to Vegas. You just have to remember that the 2 come from vastly different development paths and thus user interface approach. The G would be a good function to add but i dont miss it.

Charles Newcomb · May 2nd, 2010, 09:20 AM

Maybe a workaround, maybe not...

If you want to select certain aspects of a sequence as a "group," save and name the sequence as is, then bring that into the project as a new sequence and rename it, then delete the events you don't want in it, and re-save that as a sequence.

A lot simpler in Vegas, I know. Lots of things are. Don't get me started.

I have and use FCS because some clients insist I do; but when I want to work fast...

Sherif Choudhry · August 22nd, 2010, 01:45 PM

command L will unlink video from audio track (like U in Vegas), but still looking for the equivalent of G in vegas to link any multiple number of video clips to the synched audio so they move around as one

I also think apple should add an automatic cross dissolve when 2 clips overlap (like in vegas), that would save an extra click

Gabe Strong · August 22nd, 2010, 11:12 PM

Well, except for the fact, that a cut should probably be the most used transition (in my opinion) so
automatically adding a cross dissolve would then require an extra click to GET RID OF! I guess it
all depends on the way you edit. I edit everything with cuts only, and then add transitions in
specific areas that need it, I do NOT want 'automatic' crossfades!

Andy Mees · August 23rd, 2010, 06:28 PM

I'm with you Gabe, but for what its worth I think the argument here would be that different folks have different needs, and some would like the option to enable / disable some such functions as opposed to simply not having them at all. On the other hand, Apple have long been pioneers of simplified UI's where form and function are very carefully controlled so as to ensure the much vaunted Apple "Ease of Use" even to the extent of simplifying an application's preferences options ...

All well and good, but in my opinion (despite having no personal desire to see automatic transitions amongst them) the ProApps should have a second "Advanced" level of System/User Preferences to allow pro users better control. Can't imagine them actually doing such a thing though.

Best
Andy

Gabe Strong · August 24th, 2010, 02:13 AM

Yeah, everyone edits differently, and all of us have different wants and needs. I was just pointing out
why they probably did NOT have auto crossfades.....I think many of us would not want that particular
'feature'. HOWEVER, you bring up a very good point. What if they gave you the OPTION to have
auto crossfades for example? But that option could also be turned off? That would satisfy both
sides, because you could customize your editing experience. And that would really be cool!
Course it would probably require a bunch of extra programing and work to make happen.

April 29th, 2010, 04:06 PM	#1
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	FCP equivalent of Vegas' "grouping" function? In Vegas, you can grab any assortment of unrelated video and audio clips in the timeline, and hit "g" (or maybe it's "shift g" now) and create a "group", meaning that when you do ripple edits, slide things around, etc., these clips all move together. I'm assuming there's a similar function in FCP, but my research has come to a dead end. Merged clips seems to be something else entirely, and at any rate, to make one, I have to mark in i/o point in EACH clip I want to group together? And linking only seems to work with one audio and video clip at a time. . .if I select one video clip and multiple audio clips (even on the same track), the option to link is greyed out. Is there a solution? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 29th, 2010, 06:24 PM	#2
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Josh, by "merged" I'm guessing you mean "nested"? You can nest a bunch of clips but they'll inhabit the sequence as a single clip. You can still add clips into the sequence around it. But if you want to keep that group of clips distinct within the sequence, yet have them move as though they're strictly connected to one another, I don't think that's a feature in FCP. If it doesn't exist, you should send in a suggestion via FCP's built-in feedback feature. It's how Apple finds out about what users want in the program. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

April 29th, 2010, 06:31 PM	#3
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	No, there's a separate function called "merged clips". I read about it but still don't quite understand it. I can't believe there's no grouping analog in FCP. That's. . .insane. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 29th, 2010, 07:20 PM	#4
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	I don't understand the way "grouping" is utilized in Vegas from your description. Are you talking about nested sequences which can be edited around and altered internally? I edit this way all the time and it works fine. This way you can edit a segment of a larger project and not worry about it getting changed accidentally when you work on the larger project. Grouping in layout programs takes multiple elements and basically locks them together so they can be moved around as a unit. Nesting in FCP does the same thing. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

April 29th, 2010, 07:44 PM	#5
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	No, no. There's no nesting involved. Say you're looking at the timeline. You have multiple video clips and audio clips, across multiple tracks. Grouping is where you select some of them, and create a group. That group moves together. Sync is forced. You grab and drag one of those clips, all the others in that group move with it. You can't move any of the grouped video or audio clips "out of sync" with each other unless you specifically remove them from the group or ungroup them. It's the same way a piece of video and audio that originated with each other (say digitized from a tape or card) moves, accept instead of just one video and audio clip, it can be a whole bunch of clips across multiple tracks. Or, it's like when you select a whole bunch of clips and move them together. Except, even when you don't select that whole bunch (if you only select one), they always move together anyway. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

April 29th, 2010, 08:01 PM	#6
Shaughan Flynn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 272	Merging clips in FCP is typically used for (but not limited to) syncing double system media. For example. You boom a scene and record the audio on a digital recorder. At the start of the shot you slate it with a clap board. In FCP you double click the audio file and scrub to the point of the "clap" and set the in point. Then double click the corresponding video clip, scrub to the frame where the sticks come together on the slate and set the in point. Then select both the audio and video clips, right (option) click them and select Merge Clips. You will then be prompted for how to merge them. Select In points and click OK. Now you will have a new footage reference file that you can use that has the separate audio linked in and synced. __________________ B-Scene Films

April 29th, 2010, 08:31 PM	#7
Tim Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: SF & LA Posts: 195	i know what you're talking about. I used the merge feature all the time and loved it in Vegas. I see the groups button but I don't know what exactly it does because once I unclick a group they dont move as one. Which is great when clips are scattered around the timeline. I keep highlighting a bunch of clips and select link ( cmmd L) but it doesn't work :) __________________ Event Production Services \| Video Production San Francisco

April 29th, 2010, 10:42 PM	#8
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Then grouping does not exist in FCP the way you describe it. I use nesting to achieve the same effect but I can see how it would be useful outside of nesting. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

April 30th, 2010, 06:41 AM	#9
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Sorry Josh, I don;t work with Vegas but I do work with some other NLEs that have a grouping function as you describe, unfortunately FCP does NOT have this function ... if only.

May 1st, 2010, 03:27 AM	#10
Sherif Choudhry Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London Posts: 222	i was long time vegas user but moved over to macbook pro and FCP, which for me was the right thing to do. But its interesting that if i want to do a quick edit of a short I will go to Vegas. You just have to remember that the 2 come from vastly different development paths and thus user interface approach. The G would be a good function to add but i dont miss it.

May 2nd, 2010, 09:20 AM	#11
Charles Newcomb Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salida, Colorado Posts: 561	Maybe a workaround, maybe not... If you want to select certain aspects of a sequence as a "group," save and name the sequence as is, then bring that into the project as a new sequence and rename it, then delete the events you don't want in it, and re-save that as a sequence. A lot simpler in Vegas, I know. Lots of things are. Don't get me started. I have and use FCS because some clients insist I do; but when I want to work fast...

August 22nd, 2010, 01:45 PM	#12
Sherif Choudhry Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London Posts: 222	Command L to unlink video from audio command L will unlink video from audio track (like U in Vegas), but still looking for the equivalent of G in vegas to link any multiple number of video clips to the synched audio so they move around as one I also think apple should add an automatic cross dissolve when 2 clips overlap (like in vegas), that would save an extra click

August 22nd, 2010, 11:12 PM	#13
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Well, except for the fact, that a cut should probably be the most used transition (in my opinion) so automatically adding a cross dissolve would then require an extra click to GET RID OF! I guess it all depends on the way you edit. I edit everything with cuts only, and then add transitions in specific areas that need it, I do NOT want 'automatic' crossfades!

August 23rd, 2010, 06:28 PM	#14
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	I'm with you Gabe, but for what its worth I think the argument here would be that different folks have different needs, and some would like the option to enable / disable some such functions as opposed to simply not having them at all. On the other hand, Apple have long been pioneers of simplified UI's where form and function are very carefully controlled so as to ensure the much vaunted Apple "Ease of Use" even to the extent of simplifying an application's preferences options ... All well and good, but in my opinion (despite having no personal desire to see automatic transitions amongst them) the ProApps should have a second "Advanced" level of System/User Preferences to allow pro users better control. Can't imagine them actually doing such a thing though. Best Andy

August 24th, 2010, 02:13 AM	#15
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Yeah, everyone edits differently, and all of us have different wants and needs. I was just pointing out why they probably did NOT have auto crossfades.....I think many of us would not want that particular 'feature'. HOWEVER, you bring up a very good point. What if they gave you the OPTION to have auto crossfades for example? But that option could also be turned off? That would satisfy both sides, because you could customize your editing experience. And that would really be cool! Course it would probably require a bunch of extra programing and work to make happen.