24P with FCP and DVD at DVinfo.net

November 2nd, 2002, 12:26 PM

I have been reading about the Panasonic AG-DVX 100 and am thinking about purchasing one. I have a couple of questions about the 24P format and FCP and DVD Studio.

-Can I leverage 24P with FCP? It sounds as if there was support announced but it is not yet available?

-When I go to burn onto DVD will I need to convert to 30i or another format or can I encode at 24P?

Any information in greatly appreciated.

Jeff Donald · November 3rd, 2002, 06:17 PM

Apple's Cinema Tools supports 24fps. You only need to be concerned about 24fps if you are going to film with the finished project. Apple's site walks you through it http://www.apple.com/cinematools/hd.html. In FCP you can set a 24fps frame rate. Cinema Tools is mostly used for going film (does EDLs). If you plan on playing the DVD on your TV at home you'll need NTSC video (yup, 29.97fps). If you are going to film with your projects the DVX100 makes sense. However, a look at Magic Bullet plugin http://www.theorphanage.com/ may make more sense for the occasional film type project (and much less money).

Jeff

Rob Lohman · November 4th, 2002, 12:32 PM

DVD accepts the following progressive formats:

1. 24 fps (NTSC)
2. 25 fps (PAL)
3. 29.97 fps (NTSC)

So that should be no problem. I don't know about FCP.

Jason Wood · November 4th, 2002, 10:25 PM

Doesn't the DVX100 just do a 2:3 in-camera pulldown anyway?

Jeff Donald · November 5th, 2002, 06:42 AM

To the best of my knowledge the DVX100 does a pull down. NTSC is 29.97 fps. No other frame rates can be broadcast or displayed by NTSC monitors or TVs.

Jeff

Paul Sedillo · November 21st, 2002, 09:01 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Apple's Cinema Tools supports 24fps. You only need to be concerned about 24fps if you are going to film with the finished project. Apple's site walks you through it http://www.apple.com/cinematools/hd.html. In FCP you can set a 24fps frame rate. Cinema Tools is mostly used for going film (does EDLs). If you plan on playing the DVD on your TV at home you'll need NTSC video (yup, 29.97fps). If you are going to film with your projects the DVX100 makes sense. However, a look at Magic Bullet plugin http://www.theorphanage.com/ may make more sense for the occasional film type project (and much less money).

Jeff -->>>

Jeff,

It is my understanding that you must use After Effects with Magic Bullet is that correct? If so, do you edit in FCP and than take it into After Effects for added manipulation?

Ken Tanaka · November 21st, 2002, 09:07 PM

That is correct, Paul. MB is an AfterEffects plug-in suite. It -might- also work with FCP3, since FCP can accept many AE plug-ins.

Jeff Donald · November 21st, 2002, 09:34 PM

It doesn't work directly with FCP3 (but might in FCP4) because Apple changed plug-in rules for FCP3 when it was introduced. MB needs AE to work. FCP4 will be introduced soon. Some speculate as early as DV Expo West in a few weeks. I doubt that because Apple isn't too far along in the Beta process. My best guess is at MacWorld SF or a few weeks after. After Effects 6 is not scheduled for about a year according to the rumor sites.

People are complaining about MB being slow (I average 5 to 10 seconds a frame with a DP 450) and losing resolution. Little, if any of my work will go to film, ever. But I do have clients want a less video look for DVD, broadcast and tape (usually VHS). I already owned AE so I couldn't really see buying the Panasonic DVX100. If I was going to film, maybe. But MB does everything I need.

Jeff

Paul Sedillo · November 22nd, 2002, 05:59 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : That is correct, Paul. MB is an AfterEffects plug-in suite. It -might- also work with FCP3, since FCP can accept many AE plug-ins. -->>>

I guess I did never got far enough in the FCP manual to know that it takes AE plug-ins. Is there anything special that I need to do, to install an AE plug-in?

Paul Sedillo · November 22nd, 2002, 06:01 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : It doesn't work directly with FCP3 (but might in FCP4) because Apple changed plug-in rules for FCP3 when it was introduced. MB needs AE to work. FCP4 will be introduced soon. Some speculate as early as DV Expo West in a few weeks. I doubt that because Apple isn't too far along in the Beta process. My best guess is at MacWorld SF or a few weeks after. After Effects 6 is not scheduled for about a year according to the rumor sites.
-->>>

I don't recall if it was you or not who made the comment that Apple may come out with a "Pro" version and a "regular" version. This logic makes sense. It will be interesting to see what Apple actually does with the next release.

Jeff Donald · November 22nd, 2002, 06:23 AM

Yah, that was me speculating what Apple might do to counter Avid's Pro Bundle and also increase revenue. If the additional features in a pro version were juicy enough, I don't think a real pro would balk at another $300 to $500. Most AE plug-in installers put them in the correct folder. A few require manual installation. There is a plug-in folder (just like other Adobe programs) and you drop the plug-in in the folder and start AE. The first time it will ask for the serial and your good to go.

Jeff

Paul Sedillo · November 22nd, 2002, 06:55 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Yah, that was me speculating what Apple might do to counter Avid's Pro Bundle and also increase revenue. If the additional features in a pro version were juicy enough, I don't think a real pro would balk at another $300 to $500. Most AE plug-in installers put them in the correct folder. A few require manual installation. There is a plug-in folder (just like other Adobe programs) and you drop the plug-in in the folder and start AE. The first time it will ask for the serial and your good to go.

Jeff -->>>

It would really depend on the features for the Pro version. I am not really familiar with the Avid suit of products. What is in the Pro bundle?

Are you refering to the FCP plug-in folder or the AE folder?

Jeff Donald · November 22nd, 2002, 07:29 AM

The Avid PowerPack (Pro version) handles Film and EDL for film, 29 plug-ins (RT for lightning, DVE's) motion tracking, full retail version of both Boris FX and Graffiti, and unlimited nesting. AE has a folder, as does FCP3, for plug-ins. However, FCP3 no longer uses AE plug-ins (it used to, but not any more) because Apple changed FCP when version 3 came out. FCP2 used to me able to use AE plug-ins. I'm hoping Apple makes changes to FCP4 and aloows the use of standard AE plug-ins.

Jeff

Paul Sedillo · November 22nd, 2002, 09:08 AM

I've purchased Boris Red and have not even come close to understanding how to work with it. There are no classes in Houston, which is to bad. From the research that I did prior to buying it, it seemed like the logical choice for the work that I am doing. Have you had any experience with it?

November 23rd, 2002, 03:43 AM

Paul,
Call the folks up at Boris. They have great tech support. They also have some video's available that take you through some great stuff. The program is awesome. The thing scared me at first. Isolate yourself for a couple of days, watch the video's, and play incesantly with all of the buttons. You will be astounded when you make your first nifty effects. This program will make NLE fun.

Sincerely,
Bill

November 2nd, 2002, 12:26 PM	#1
ppbvideo Posts: n/a	24P with FCP and DVD I have been reading about the Panasonic AG-DVX 100 and am thinking about purchasing one. I have a couple of questions about the 24P format and FCP and DVD Studio. -Can I leverage 24P with FCP? It sounds as if there was support announced but it is not yet available? -When I go to burn onto DVD will I need to convert to 30i or another format or can I encode at 24P? Any information in greatly appreciated.

November 4th, 2002, 12:32 PM	#3
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	DVD accepts the following progressive formats: 1. 24 fps (NTSC) 2. 25 fps (PAL) 3. 29.97 fps (NTSC) So that should be no problem. I don't know about FCP. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 21st, 2002, 09:01 PM	#6
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Apple's Cinema Tools supports 24fps. You only need to be concerned about 24fps if you are going to film with the finished project. Apple's site walks you through it http://www.apple.com/cinematools/hd.html. In FCP you can set a 24fps frame rate. Cinema Tools is mostly used for going film (does EDLs). If you plan on playing the DVD on your TV at home you'll need NTSC video (yup, 29.97fps). If you are going to film with your projects the DVX100 makes sense. However, a look at Magic Bullet plugin http://www.theorphanage.com/ may make more sense for the occasional film type project (and much less money). Jeff -->>> Jeff, It is my understanding that you must use After Effects with Magic Bullet is that correct? If so, do you edit in FCP and than take it into After Effects for added manipulation? __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

November 21st, 2002, 09:07 PM	#7
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	That is correct, Paul. MB is an AfterEffects plug-in suite. It -might- also work with FCP3, since FCP can accept many AE plug-ins. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

November 22nd, 2002, 05:59 AM	#9
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : That is correct, Paul. MB is an AfterEffects plug-in suite. It -might- also work with FCP3, since FCP can accept many AE plug-ins. -->>> I guess I did never got far enough in the FCP manual to know that it takes AE plug-ins. Is there anything special that I need to do, to install an AE plug-in? __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

November 3rd, 2002, 06:17 PM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Apple's Cinema Tools supports 24fps. You only need to be concerned about 24fps if you are going to film with the finished project. Apple's site walks you through it http://www.apple.com/cinematools/hd.html. In FCP you can set a 24fps frame rate. Cinema Tools is mostly used for going film (does EDLs). If you plan on playing the DVD on your TV at home you'll need NTSC video (yup, 29.97fps). If you are going to film with your projects the DVX100 makes sense. However, a look at Magic Bullet plugin http://www.theorphanage.com/ may make more sense for the occasional film type project (and much less money). Jeff

November 4th, 2002, 10:25 PM	#4
Jason Wood Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 87	Doesn't the DVX100 just do a 2:3 in-camera pulldown anyway?

November 5th, 2002, 06:42 AM	#5
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	To the best of my knowledge the DVX100 does a pull down. NTSC is 29.97 fps. No other frame rates can be broadcast or displayed by NTSC monitors or TVs. Jeff

November 21st, 2002, 09:34 PM	#8
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	It doesn't work directly with FCP3 (but might in FCP4) because Apple changed plug-in rules for FCP3 when it was introduced. MB needs AE to work. FCP4 will be introduced soon. Some speculate as early as DV Expo West in a few weeks. I doubt that because Apple isn't too far along in the Beta process. My best guess is at MacWorld SF or a few weeks after. After Effects 6 is not scheduled for about a year according to the rumor sites. People are complaining about MB being slow (I average 5 to 10 seconds a frame with a DP 450) and losing resolution. Little, if any of my work will go to film, ever. But I do have clients want a less video look for DVD, broadcast and tape (usually VHS). I already owned AE so I couldn't really see buying the Panasonic DVX100. If I was going to film, maybe. But MB does everything I need. Jeff

November 22nd, 2002, 06:01 AM	#10
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : It doesn't work directly with FCP3 (but might in FCP4) because Apple changed plug-in rules for FCP3 when it was introduced. MB needs AE to work. FCP4 will be introduced soon. Some speculate as early as DV Expo West in a few weeks. I doubt that because Apple isn't too far along in the Beta process. My best guess is at MacWorld SF or a few weeks after. After Effects 6 is not scheduled for about a year according to the rumor sites. -->>> I don't recall if it was you or not who made the comment that Apple may come out with a "Pro" version and a "regular" version. This logic makes sense. It will be interesting to see what Apple actually does with the next release. __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

November 22nd, 2002, 06:23 AM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Yah, that was me speculating what Apple might do to counter Avid's Pro Bundle and also increase revenue. If the additional features in a pro version were juicy enough, I don't think a real pro would balk at another $300 to $500. Most AE plug-in installers put them in the correct folder. A few require manual installation. There is a plug-in folder (just like other Adobe programs) and you drop the plug-in in the folder and start AE. The first time it will ask for the serial and your good to go. Jeff

November 22nd, 2002, 06:55 AM	#12
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Yah, that was me speculating what Apple might do to counter Avid's Pro Bundle and also increase revenue. If the additional features in a pro version were juicy enough, I don't think a real pro would balk at another $300 to $500. Most AE plug-in installers put them in the correct folder. A few require manual installation. There is a plug-in folder (just like other Adobe programs) and you drop the plug-in in the folder and start AE. The first time it will ask for the serial and your good to go. Jeff -->>> It would really depend on the features for the Pro version. I am not really familiar with the Avid suit of products. What is in the Pro bundle? Are you refering to the FCP plug-in folder or the AE folder? __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

November 22nd, 2002, 07:29 AM	#13
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The Avid PowerPack (Pro version) handles Film and EDL for film, 29 plug-ins (RT for lightning, DVE's) motion tracking, full retail version of both Boris FX and Graffiti, and unlimited nesting. AE has a folder, as does FCP3, for plug-ins. However, FCP3 no longer uses AE plug-ins (it used to, but not any more) because Apple changed FCP when version 3 came out. FCP2 used to me able to use AE plug-ins. I'm hoping Apple makes changes to FCP4 and aloows the use of standard AE plug-ins. Jeff

November 22nd, 2002, 09:08 AM	#14
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	I've purchased Boris Red and have not even come close to understanding how to work with it. There are no classes in Houston, which is to bad. From the research that I did prior to buying it, it seemed like the logical choice for the work that I am doing. Have you had any experience with it? __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

November 23rd, 2002, 03:43 AM	#15
BillF741 Posts: n/a	RE: Boris Red Paul, Call the folks up at Boris. They have great tech support. They also have some video's available that take you through some great stuff. The program is awesome. The thing scared me at first. Isolate yourself for a couple of days, watch the video's, and play incesantly with all of the buttons. You will be astounded when you make your first nifty effects. This program will make NLE fun. Sincerely, Bill