Thinking of Moving to Mac and FC

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Jerry Porter

Any advice on what I should be looking for in a Mac to edit with FC? My workflow is 7D to cineform to NLE.

You won't want or need Cineform as ProRes is equivalent & supplied with FCP. First Light which is the Neoscene equivalent of Colour the application that is part of FCS is only available as part of Neoscene HD at $1000. As mentioned previously the Final Cut Studio package is a great bargain.

[Nigel Barker]

On a more general note I see a whole raft of postings in forums from long term Windows users saying how happy they are to have switched to Mac. I don't think that I have ever seen a single posting from a long term Mac user who is grateful to have switched to Windows.

[Shaughan Flynn]

Just because one person on the FC suite has a specific workflow doesn't mean the rest of the community follows lock-step.

I was not trying to imply that at all. My question was genuine. Thanks for the response.

[Robert Lane]

Originally Posted by Shaughan Flynn

I was not trying to imply that at all. My question was genuine. Thanks for the response.

Right - that wasn't my intended meaning but I'm going on less than 6 hours sleep in 2 days so I'd expect my english skills have all but disappeared by now...

[Robert Lane]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

...I don't think that I have ever seen a single posting from a long term Mac user who is grateful to have switched to Windows.

You certainly won't see that on a Mac-centric forum however, one of my biggest clients did the unthinkable last year and spent 2 months completely migrating their entire post suite over to a Win/Avid/Edius/Scenarist platform after getting tired of the "wait and pray" that Apple would finally deliver everything they'd been waiting for. In fact I posted a fairly thorough overview of their reasons for the changeover and their subsequent feedback here on the forum after having their new systems online for a time; they're completely happy.

As always with threads/debates like this it should always be pointed out that there is no such thing as the "perfect" system across the board; each has it's weaknesses, triumphs and things that go bump in the night that make us all nuts. The key is stepping away from the emotional nonsense that the marketeers want us to use for our purchasing decisions and stick with factual, real-world info.

[Hans Ledel]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

On a more general note I see a whole raft of postings in forums from long term Windows users saying how happy they are to have switched to Mac. I don't think that I have ever seen a single posting from a long term Mac user who is grateful to have switched to Windows.

You will find many of them if you go to Canopus and there Edius forum

Cheers

Hans

[Brett Sherman]

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

One quick method of clarification as to whether or not making the shift makes fiscal sense is this: Take up a general snapshot of the entire cost of switching, both hardware and software. Then figure out how long it will take you to recoup those costs, in other words, the new stuff has to be able to pay for itself in a reasonable timeframe, usually less than 6 months. And "paying for itself" means that the new equipment is able to help you make *more* money than the old, not just keep the status-quo of your current profitability.

I switched to Mac 2 years ago. And I partially agree with you here. However, if you have to end up on the Mac it's always cheaper to do it earlier than later. Your 6 month timeframe is too short. And you also have to factor in future costs. I believe the costs of ownership for a Mac are actually less than a PC. It may take a few years to realize this. Since I switched to Mac my hardware costs have dropped precipitously along with OS problems and maintenance time. I was continually replacing power supplies and motherboards on the PC. And dealing with an OS that was not as fast as it should be. I believe the Mac hardware and software is superior to anything on the PC side. And workstation PCs are actually no cheaper than the Mac counterpart.

The ultimate thing that led me to Mac. I can edit FCP on Mac and not a PC. Avid and Adobe are on both. So if you want access to all major editing programs (excluding Vegas which doesn't have broad professional acceptance) you have to be on a Mac.

The costs of switching are not insignificant. I probably spent around $2500 to switch software, but I probably had more than the average user with audio plug-ins, multimedia programs, etc. Some of these programs were getting to the necessary point to upgrade on the PC so I'd have had to spend some money there anyways.

Ultimately switching to Mac has made my life a lot easier. It was well worth the cost.

[Shaughan Flynn]

Originally Posted by Hans Ledel

You will find many of them if you go to Canopus and there Edius forum

Cheers

Hans

I think that's Thomson/Grass Valley now...

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Hans Ledel

You will find many of them if you go to Canopus and there Edius forum

Cheers

Hans

I took a look. I couldn't find any.

I found guys wishing that Edius would run on Mac OS. I found guys wishing that Edius would run on Windows 7. I found guys who were happy to have switched from other NLEs to Edius. I found guys who were running Edius on Macs using Bootcamp.

I did not find a single post from someone saying he was happy to have dumped Mac OS in favour of Windows.

[Jerry Porter]

Thanks everyone for you input and insight. What I'm hearing here is to sit tight for a little while and see how it works out. Mac has major hardware coming soon and CS5 is due to release in the spring (which means it will be out of BETA by the fall) well it's a good time to be where I sit then. I have a system (albeit frustrating to work with sometimes) that works and now I need to wait and see who gets the next big chunk of my paycheck.....

[Ed Przyzycki]

Thanks for the discussion. I'm a PC user as well looking to make the switch, so I truly appreciate the comments from the MAC folks. Actually, I was trained on Avids back in the day when they were only on MACs.

I'm in the XDCAM camp now, and just tried my EX3 footage with FCP and Snow Leopard.

I'm going to hold off making a purchasing decision (either Mac or PC) until CS5 and until Apple makes some more splashes with new hardware.

My thoughts (and where I'm at):
1) I like having the choice of Adobe Premiere and FCP on one workstation, but it's not critical for my work. (=MAC)
2) I NEED a substantial Blu-Ray authoring application. I'm familiar with Encore and the CS workflow already. (Not to mention Bridge w/ After Effects, Photoshop, etc) If I go with a Mac, I'll NEED to invest in both software applications right out of the gate to deliver to clients. (=PC)
3) I did some rendering tests with FCP. I was surprised it didn't use all of the available processors or RAM. It could have been a setup issue (as I'm no MAC expert yet), but if I'm going to invest in hardware, I want it optimized. (=?) I'll wait to see what CS REALLY needs and where Macs are headed.
4) The amount of software/hardware configurations and support on the PC side is insane. With Premiere CS4, I need Main Concept plugin to export XDCAM. Lots of other "hidden" issues. (=MAC?)

Again - I appreciate everyone's thoughts and insights!

[Shaughan Flynn]

On issue 4, FCP is not adept at using multiple processors and is also a 32bit application. While the current version of the Mac OS is indeed 64 bit, FCP has not yet been updated to take advantage of that.

That being said, I have never really had much of a performance issue with FCP. I say that with the caveat that I run a 2.8 gHz 8 core machine and rarely use any effect more complex than a simple transition.

Compressor, however, DOES use multiple cores and can also delegate processing to other machines on a network. Since this is the app that you will use to conform final output with, Apple focused on making it the performance champ in the suite.

Now, all of that being said, I suspect we will see a 64 bit update to FCS. Recently, Apple's DAW software, Logic Studio, received a free update to bring the app to 64 bit. It's a huge improvement. And it was free.

[David Knaggs]

Originally Posted by Shaughan Flynn

A robust NLE (FCP), an incredible audio application (STP), a slick motion graphics / compositing app (Motion), an incredible color correction application (Color), a networkable batch compression app (Compressor) and an OK DVD mastering app (DVDSP).

I think this is the best description I've seen for FCS on this forum. It summarizes what FCS actually is, rather than stressing what it isn't.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Originally Posted by Ed Przyzycki

4) The amount of software/hardware configurations and support on the PC side is insane. With Premiere CS4, I need Main Concept plugin to export XDCAM. Lots of other "hidden" issues. (=MAC?)

The last version of Premiere that I used was Premiere Pro 2, so I don't know how it's now, but with FCP, you just buy one version which has support for MANY MANY codecs in importing or exporting. You can output easily in the XDCAM codec, or write back to an XDCAM disc if you want (if you have a deck attached and use the Export to XDCAM command in FCP, which also uses the XDCAM Transfer Tool by Sony).

So, with FCP you don't need extra hidden purchases to export or import many professional codecs, which is really nice. When I used Premiere in version 2, you indeed needed to 'buy' extra plugins to be able to import certain formats.

One format you can't export to in Compressor out of the box is Flash...

[Gabe Strong]

But you can export to H.264, and then just change the extension from .mov to .flv and
guess what? You've got a flash file that will play just fine......