using a reference TV with mac and final cut pro at DVinfo.net

John Sconiers · October 8th, 2009, 09:33 PM

Long story short I got a chance to look at a large studio today and in their editing room they were using FCP on the new mac pro. The engineer had a dual display setup with two 24" monitors and a reference tv. They would do some edits in FCP and then some how play them on the reference TV. I asked about the TV and he said it was nothing special just a standard 1080i tv. I believed they were using a 4870 dual display video card. So my question is how are they connecting the TV to the mac to play the edited clip as they go? Are they running a second 4870 and some how telling FCP to play the scene on that monitor?

Ryan Hansen · October 9th, 2009, 03:40 AM

Its probably through a capture card or deck. Its quite simple to set up and really really handy to use.

I'm not to sure how cards work, but I use a handycam (*sigh* one day i'll buy a deck) and a decent CRT TV. Connect the device via fire-wire and turn set it to VTR mode, Plug the TV into the camera via A/V Cable, then in FCP goto View -> External Video -> And I'm not in front of my mac at the moment, but i think its "Refresh External Devices" and then under the same menu somewhere change to "All Frames", and make sure the device is set to Firewire PAL or NTSC device

Two things to note -
1. Audio will by default follow video (out the camera) so if you have it set to firewire, audio will follow, just a FYI when you can't figure where the audio went....

2. If you are working in HD or some other formats the device needs to be able to play that back to, so if it doesn't play or it only shows the frame you have stopped on then the device can't support your squence format...

Hope that makes sense, check the manual for "External Video" or "External Video Monitoring"

Cool
Ryan

David W. Jones · October 9th, 2009, 07:01 AM

Editing content for broadcast requires monitoring a broadcast quality signal.
Something along the lines of a Kona card from AJA will give you that ability.

Robert Lane · October 9th, 2009, 10:18 AM

John,

In order to get real-time playback out to any TV set whether it's a tube-type or newer widescreen LCD/plasma you need a "capture" card which gives you a plethora of outputs.

For the Mac Pro that either means a KONA card from AJA or the Decklink or Intensity from BlackMagic.

There are dozens of threads about setting up external monitors and especially how to get color-correct information on a broadcast-monitor (a specially designed tube-type TV that has broadcast-specifc gamma display properties) so I'd suggest using the search feature and reading up on these posts.

Shaun Roemich · October 9th, 2009, 10:43 AM

Further, taking an RGB output from a computer video card is almost always inaccurate for colour as the computer output is RGB colourspace while video uses YUV colour space. The two share a great deal of the colour spectrum but not all of it.

YUV from a calibrated I/O device or card INTO a YUV input (component, hdmi, hd-sdi/sdi) on a CALIBRATED monitor with sufficient capabilities (wide gamut) is the ONLY way to get ACCURATE video.

Andy Mees · October 14th, 2009, 01:33 AM

Take a look at the offerings from Matrox, John ... excellent quality at a great price, portable units with some unique built-in functionality that'll enable you to get the very best from your display.

The MXO is not a "capture" device at all, its Output only and will allow you to monitor your footage via your Mac's DVI connection ... it also functions as a scan convertor, so if that is something you might also want or need then its a good fit.
Scan Converter - Output and Monitoring Device - Matrox MXO

The MXO2 series are full I/O devices (input and output) and connect to your Mac via ExpressCard/34 or PCIe card. Given that you've not encountered I/O cards before then I'm guessing you probably don't have any need for the more broadcast standard I/O ports ... as such, the "MXO2 Mini" may be a good fit for your needs.
HDMI and Analog I/O for Mac and PC - Matrox MXO2 Mini

Best
Andy

Herojig Gaton · October 21st, 2009, 02:41 AM

Hi, I had almost the same question as the OP, but I am in a village with nothing more then a MBP, Camera, and TV. I am using the TV now to monitor the edits and captures, but I need to know if there is anyway to do some calibration so I can set the mac LCD to correlate to the TV (newer CRT type) - they are wildly different, and perhaps apply effects and filters in FCP and somehow have them come out close when I go to DVD? I know this is not correct procedure, but there is no field monitor available here, nor a MXO or MacPro:) But we do have a lot of rice at the moment...

Tom Cadwalader · October 22nd, 2009, 08:41 PM

Are the differences you are seeing related to color or are they interlaced vs progressive difference? I think you are doing the right thing to look at you edits on the tV, if your final product is going to be a dvd. You need to know what it will look like on a TV, not so much a computer monitor. ( progressive vs interlaced), so I don;t see the need to be able to calibrate the two, they are different animals. I think you need to see both.

Herojig Gaton · October 22nd, 2009, 09:04 PM

Thx tom for that, I got it all hooked up, calibrated the external TV best I could to colorbars from FCP, and I see what u mean now. All is well, my only disappointment is that Color won't display on the TV like FCP can, it's not supported. But I am now using the scopes in color and sending back to FCP, checking on the TV, and going back and forth like that. Wish I had an MXO box!!! Cheers...

October 8th, 2009, 09:33 PM	#1
John Sconiers Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Melrose Park Illinois Posts: 49	using a reference TV with mac and final cut pro Long story short I got a chance to look at a large studio today and in their editing room they were using FCP on the new mac pro. The engineer had a dual display setup with two 24" monitors and a reference tv. They would do some edits in FCP and then some how play them on the reference TV. I asked about the TV and he said it was nothing special just a standard 1080i tv. I believed they were using a 4870 dual display video card. So my question is how are they connecting the TV to the mac to play the edited clip as they go? Are they running a second 4870 and some how telling FCP to play the scene on that monitor?

October 9th, 2009, 10:43 AM	#5
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Further, taking an RGB output from a computer video card is almost always inaccurate for colour as the computer output is RGB colourspace while video uses YUV colour space. The two share a great deal of the colour spectrum but not all of it. YUV from a calibrated I/O device or card INTO a YUV input (component, hdmi, hd-sdi/sdi) on a CALIBRATED monitor with sufficient capabilities (wide gamut) is the ONLY way to get ACCURATE video. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

October 21st, 2009, 02:41 AM	#7
Herojig Gaton Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: taiwan Posts: 30	Is there anyone that can describe this in detail... Hi, I had almost the same question as the OP, but I am in a village with nothing more then a MBP, Camera, and TV. I am using the TV now to monitor the edits and captures, but I need to know if there is anyway to do some calibration so I can set the mac LCD to correlate to the TV (newer CRT type) - they are wildly different, and perhaps apply effects and filters in FCP and somehow have them come out close when I go to DVD? I know this is not correct procedure, but there is no field monitor available here, nor a MXO or MacPro:) But we do have a lot of rice at the moment...

October 22nd, 2009, 08:41 PM	#8
Tom Cadwalader Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cheboygan, Michigan Posts: 79	Define Difference Are the differences you are seeing related to color or are they interlaced vs progressive difference? I think you are doing the right thing to look at you edits on the tV, if your final product is going to be a dvd. You need to know what it will look like on a TV, not so much a computer monitor. ( progressive vs interlaced), so I don;t see the need to be able to calibrate the two, they are different animals. I think you need to see both.

October 9th, 2009, 03:40 AM	#2
Ryan Hansen Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 82	Its probably through a capture card or deck. Its quite simple to set up and really really handy to use. I'm not to sure how cards work, but I use a handycam (sigh one day i'll buy a deck) and a decent CRT TV. Connect the device via fire-wire and turn set it to VTR mode, Plug the TV into the camera via A/V Cable, then in FCP goto View -> External Video -> And I'm not in front of my mac at the moment, but i think its "Refresh External Devices" and then under the same menu somewhere change to "All Frames", and make sure the device is set to Firewire PAL or NTSC device Two things to note - 1. Audio will by default follow video (out the camera) so if you have it set to firewire, audio will follow, just a FYI when you can't figure where the audio went.... 2. If you are working in HD or some other formats the device needs to be able to play that back to, so if it doesn't play or it only shows the frame you have stopped on then the device can't support your squence format... Hope that makes sense, check the manual for "External Video" or "External Video Monitoring" Cool Ryan

October 9th, 2009, 07:01 AM	#3
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	Editing content for broadcast requires monitoring a broadcast quality signal. Something along the lines of a Kona card from AJA will give you that ability.

October 9th, 2009, 10:18 AM	#4
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,825 Images: 15	John, In order to get real-time playback out to any TV set whether it's a tube-type or newer widescreen LCD/plasma you need a "capture" card which gives you a plethora of outputs. For the Mac Pro that either means a KONA card from AJA or the Decklink or Intensity from BlackMagic. There are dozens of threads about setting up external monitors and especially how to get color-correct information on a broadcast-monitor (a specially designed tube-type TV that has broadcast-specifc gamma display properties) so I'd suggest using the search feature and reading up on these posts.

October 14th, 2009, 01:33 AM	#6
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	Take a look at the offerings from Matrox, John ... excellent quality at a great price, portable units with some unique built-in functionality that'll enable you to get the very best from your display. The MXO is not a "capture" device at all, its Output only and will allow you to monitor your footage via your Mac's DVI connection ... it also functions as a scan convertor, so if that is something you might also want or need then its a good fit. Scan Converter - Output and Monitoring Device - Matrox MXO The MXO2 series are full I/O devices (input and output) and connect to your Mac via ExpressCard/34 or PCIe card. Given that you've not encountered I/O cards before then I'm guessing you probably don't have any need for the more broadcast standard I/O ports ... as such, the "MXO2 Mini" may be a good fit for your needs. HDMI and Analog I/O for Mac and PC - Matrox MXO2 Mini Best Andy

October 22nd, 2009, 09:04 PM	#9
Herojig Gaton Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: taiwan Posts: 30	Thx tom for that, I got it all hooked up, calibrated the external TV best I could to colorbars from FCP, and I see what u mean now. All is well, my only disappointment is that Color won't display on the TV like FCP can, it's not supported. But I am now using the scopes in color and sending back to FCP, checking on the TV, and going back and forth like that. Wish I had an MXO box!!! Cheers...