Shooting 24p, editing FCP 4.5 HD, help?

[Tim Durham]

Hi,
Not sure where the best place for this sort of inquiry would be, but here goes:

I'm currently shooting a documentary with the Pana SDX-900 in 16:9 and at 24p (not 24pA). A discussion arose (on another forum) about the show "Everyday Italian" on the Food Network and this is the look I was envisioning (motion-wise, it has nothing to do with food). It is also shot with SDX-900 in 24p but I am not what you'd call an "editor". None-the-less that function has been thrust upon me soooooo....

I was hoping someone could describe the settings I should be capturing in, editing in and outputting to, with the understanding that we want to be able to broadcast (so 60i), make a DVD (30p) and maybe at some point do a film-out (24p).

First thing first, we need to make a master to show to PBS-types, so 60i (back out to SD-930 in DVC-Pro50), while retaining the 24p motion.

We will be attaching an SD-930 deck via firewire to my iMac G-5 with Final Cut 4.5HD and I took two FCP classes more than a year ago, but have done nothing since, so if anyone could give me some indication what my first move should be, (and subsequent moves) I would be most appreciative. Humbly, I thank you. I'm not good at this.

Tim J Durham
Camera hump (not editor!)
Silver Spring, MD

[Zach Mull]

The 24p mode, I believe is standard NTSC video made from a film-like cadence added to 24-frames/sec progressive video. It should be interlaced with the same 3:2 pulldown as any other NTSC you would edit. It's only the 24p advanced mode that adds the Panasonic pulldown (2:3:3:2 I think). So I think you should treat it as just standard NTSC. I only have experience with this with a DVX-100A, however - not one of the big boy cameras.

Edit: http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording

[Tim Durham]

Originally Posted by Zach Mull

The 24p mode, I believe is standard NTSC video made from a film-like cadence added to 24-frames/sec progressive video. It should be interlaced with the same 3:2 pulldown as any other NTSC you would edit. It's only the 24p advanced mode that adds the Panasonic pulldown (2:3:3:2 I think). So I think you should treat it as just standard NTSC. I only have experience with this with a DVX-100A, however - not one of the big boy cameras.

Edit: http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/#24pRecording

Thanks for the reply, Zack. I think I've read that Adam Wilt article about
6 times in one context or another. The problem I'm having is in the capture presets on FCP. None of them is jumping out at me as being THE one to use. There are a bunch of NTSC and none say 24p. So I was hoping someone who does this regularly could just say, "OK, here's what you do..."
Could be money in it for them if that makes a difference!

I'm lookin at the "Capture/Input Settings" pull down menu and here's what I have:

DV50 NTSC 48kHz
" " " Anamorphic
" PAL "
" " " Anamorphic
DVC PRO PAL 48kHz
DVC PRO PAL 48kHz Anamorphic
DVC PRO PAL to Off-line RT

(Why PAL but no NTSC in DVC PRO SD?)

-more stuff not similar- then:

DVC PRO HD 1080i60 48kHz
720p24 48kHz
30
60

and lastly... Generic

WHY is there not one that just says:

DVC PRO NTSC 480p24
or
DVC PRO SD 480p24
or
DVC PRO NTSC 24p

You see what I mean?

Tim
-frustrated-

[Zach Mull]

Sorry I wasn't clear. In the DVX-100A 24p mode, it does not actually record 24p video. In fact, the 24pA doesn't either. Both record in 60i NTSC (or 59.94i or whatever you want to call it) and add a cadence to the video that makes it look like 24p video. The camera only records 24 frames worth of motion each second, but it spreads them across 60 fields of interlaced NTSC video, using either an alternating 3:2 pattern of fields generated by each frame, or using a 2:3:3:2 pattern. The point is, your tapes are not 24p tapes. Unless you use a reverse telecine process, your tapes ARE 60i right now. So use the DV50 NTSC 48kHz presets in capture and sequence settings. That's how it works with the DVX-100A, and I'm sure the theory is the same for the SDX, even with the nicer codec. You will only have true 24p media if you make it into 24p media, so treat it like regular NTSC DV50 because that's what you have on your tape. I hope that helps.

Edit: sorry I'm being stupid again. You shot in 16:9 so you should use the DV50 NTSC 48kHz Anamorphic presets. But again - don't look for anything that says 24p.

Edit again: I just had another idea. If you don't trust my advice here, you should try the forums on 2-pop.com. The guy who moderates those is supposed to be an SDX-900 guru, and I'm sure he would have the definitive answer and not one translated from the DVX-100. The guy to look for is Noah Kadner.

[Tim Durham]

Originally Posted by Zach Mull

Sorry I wasn't clear. In the DVX-100A 24p mode, it does not actually record 24p video. In fact, the 24pA doesn't either. Both record in 60i NTSC (or 59.94i or whatever you want to call it) and add a cadence to the video that makes it look like 24p video. The camera only records 24 frames worth of motion each second, but it spreads them across 60 fields of interlaced NTSC video, using either an alternating 3:2 pattern of fields generated by each frame, or using a 2:3:3:2 pattern. The point is, your tapes are not 24p tapes. Unless you use a reverse telecine process, your tapes ARE 60i right now. So use the DV50 NTSC 48kHz presets in capture and sequence settings. That's how it works with the DVX-100A, and I'm sure the theory is the same for the SDX, even with the nicer codec. You will only have true 24p media if you make it into 24p media, so treat it like regular NTSC DV50 because that's what you have on your tape. I hope that helps.

Edit: sorry I'm being stupid again. You shot in 16:9 so you should use the DV50 NTSC 48kHz Anamorphic presets. But again - don't look for anything that says 24p.

aHA!! Now you're talking! You just made sense of that article for me. I'd read and re-read it and I suspect in some form, it says just what you said
but it was NOT sinking in.

Got it. Thanks a million, Zach.