iMovie questions

Heath McKnight · February 12th, 2005, 10:32 AM

Same problems, but the switching between DV and HD didn't work until I quit iMovie HD and re-opened it. Bing! (to kind of quote Ground Hog Day--don't ask.)

heath

Heath McKnight · February 12th, 2005, 11:07 PM

Annnnnnnnnd now it's not working. Sigh...It's just not reading it--it should say the camera name, but it isn't. And I'm getting the snow. Did everything--switched between HD and DV, unplugged and plugged in the firewire cable, quit iMovie HD and re-launched with the camera already on.

Does the FX1 support my HD10-shot tapes?

heath

Christopher C. Murphy · February 13th, 2005, 07:35 AM

Heath, I believe it does support the HD10 tapes. But, it upconverts them to 1080i..so, it might look funky. I have to try it myself, also all my old DVCAM and mini-DV tapes shot on PD150's.

Heath McKnight · February 13th, 2005, 09:07 PM

It uprezzes? iMovie HD uprezzes?!

heath

Christopher C. Murphy · February 14th, 2005, 06:41 AM

Oops, I think that I remember now. Its not the tapes...it's the file that can be converted. If I remember correctly - you can capture the file and convert it into 1080i. So, the tapes do not play in the FX1 or Z1...my bad.

However, I did find this quote which leads me to believe there is an option in the menu system of the HD10u? I don't have the camera anymore, so you'll need to check it. My memory tells me that it's an option though!

"JY-HD10U provides format-conversion while playing back through its analog component outputs, so it can upconvert or downconvert into virtually any format, including 1080i..."

Here is the link I found that has the quote:

http://www.cineform.com/press/JVCRelease1.htm

Heath McKnight · February 14th, 2005, 08:59 AM

Yep, it's done through the component out, up to 1080i, or down to 480i and I think 480p.

the FX1 does it on the fly from 1080i to 480i via IEEE 1394 (Firewire/iLink), which my DP utilized while shooting my latest short film. He did a "live" digital downconvert to his DVX100A.

heath

Lynne Whelden · February 17th, 2005, 08:43 PM

Can anyone give me a hands-on report on editing HDV with just imovie? All discussions here seem to be about FCP and/or only using imovie as a means to another end. Specifically--could one edit a long-form documentary on it? How easy is insert editing? Can you do J,L edits easily? How many audio tracks are available? What does it not have that's considered almost indispensible these days? Bottom line--is it good enough for most documentary projects these days? Thanks

Rhett Allen · February 17th, 2005, 09:00 PM

bottom line... no.
Well I guess you "could", but it would be quite the ordeal depending on your workflow. There is quite a difference between the FREE iMovie and the $1000 FCP. If there weren't, nobody would buy FCP.
The best thing to do is go visit the info pages for the products and see which one looks like it would fit the bill for you.
iMovie
Final Cut Express
Final Cut Pro

Bryan McCullough · February 17th, 2005, 10:21 PM

Didn't someone enter a film at Sundance that was cut on iMovie?

There's no way I'd mess with it. Final Cut Express is a pretty good deal at $300. I'd go that route for serious editing.

Eric Bilodeau · February 17th, 2005, 10:57 PM

Lynne,

Since AIC is the major bug in the process, cutting directly to imovie will not solve anything. Even the first generation (the capture conversion to AIC) shows artefacting compared to the original file !

I talked to Chris and I will soon post examples of that compression on this forum.

Simon Harris · March 2nd, 2005, 09:10 PM

Apparently (according to Apple) the new version of iMovie is HDV compatible and lists the FX-1 as a device it can capture from and edit in HD - does anyone have experience with this? If so does the print to video/timeline playback work in real time to get the material back to the camera via the firewire?

If it works it could be an interesting (and affordable! because I don't really want to waste money on FC Express) stop gap for me me until Apple get their act together and release another version of FCP with full HDV compatibility.

It's frustrating to have all this nice HD footage and not be able to do some basic editing until June or July when FCP5 appears so iMovie could save the day if it works.

Boyd Ostroff · March 2nd, 2005, 09:24 PM

Sylvain just posted a brief report here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=40426

Simon Harris · March 2nd, 2005, 09:32 PM

Thanks Boyd - Actually I don't understand the weird French English (then again I can't speak French) and the stuff he is talking about taking a long time for 'conversion'.

It either captures from and prints to HDV or it dosent, and to be honest I can't figure out what he is on about - does anyone else have experience with it other than the French dude?

Thanks!

Boyd Ostroff · March 2nd, 2005, 09:45 PM

Well I don't work with HDV, but I think he's saying that after you capture from the camera the software has to convert the footage to an editable format, and that takes some time. Then when you export a finished movie back to the camera it has to convert back again which also takes awhile.

Or at least that what this "American Dude" thinks... ;-)

Dylan Pank · March 4th, 2005, 05:05 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Simon Harris It either captures from and prints to HDV or it dosent, and to be honest I can't figure out what he is on about - does anyone else have experience with it other than the French dude?

Thanks! -->>>

iMovie captures and prints HDV, but does not edit HDV.

It captures HDV over firewire, and converts to another codec, properly known as the AppleIntermediateCodec, often abbreviated to AIC.

AIC is 4 times HDV's datarate (1m=1GB) but much easier to edit. Conversion starts as you capture, but you have to wait, depending on your computer's speed, for the conversion to catch up. Only a dual 2.5 G5 seems capable of simultaneous realtime conversion. With trivial hacking, the AIC files can be taken from iMovie and loaded into FCP-HD.

The process is reversed when recording to the camera/deck, though conversion has to complete before recording to tape begins. Going from AIC to HDV takes MUCH longer (say, x5 realtime on a Dual 2.5). if editing in FCP-HD, then the file must be output to an AIC clip and re-imported to iMovie to record to the camera.

Some have complained about bad compression artefacts in AIC footage, it appears to be an inefficient codec given the quality/datarate ratio, given that cineformHD claims much higher quality at similar datarates.

To be fair to Sylvain, the above is fairly common knowledge around here, and his review was aimed at people familiar with iMovie's workflow and interested specifically in how a cheap MacMini would cope with HDV.

I recommend reading this thread. Smooth iMovie/FCP HD HDV Workflow

February 12th, 2005, 10:32 AM	#181
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Same problems, but the switching between DV and HD didn't work until I quit iMovie HD and re-opened it. Bing! (to kind of quote Ground Hog Day--don't ask.) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 12th, 2005, 11:07 PM	#182
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Annnnnnnnnd now it's not working. Sigh...It's just not reading it--it should say the camera name, but it isn't. And I'm getting the snow. Did everything--switched between HD and DV, unplugged and plugged in the firewire cable, quit iMovie HD and re-launched with the camera already on. Does the FX1 support my HD10-shot tapes? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 13th, 2005, 07:35 AM	#183
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Heath, I believe it does support the HD10 tapes. But, it upconverts them to 1080i..so, it might look funky. I have to try it myself, also all my old DVCAM and mini-DV tapes shot on PD150's. __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

February 13th, 2005, 09:07 PM	#184
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	It uprezzes? iMovie HD uprezzes?! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 14th, 2005, 06:41 AM	#185
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Oops, I think that I remember now. Its not the tapes...it's the file that can be converted. If I remember correctly - you can capture the file and convert it into 1080i. So, the tapes do not play in the FX1 or Z1...my bad. However, I did find this quote which leads me to believe there is an option in the menu system of the HD10u? I don't have the camera anymore, so you'll need to check it. My memory tells me that it's an option though! "JY-HD10U provides format-conversion while playing back through its analog component outputs, so it can upconvert or downconvert into virtually any format, including 1080i..." Here is the link I found that has the quote: http://www.cineform.com/press/JVCRelease1.htm __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

February 14th, 2005, 08:59 AM	#186
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yep, it's done through the component out, up to 1080i, or down to 480i and I think 480p. the FX1 does it on the fly from 1080i to 480i via IEEE 1394 (Firewire/iLink), which my DP utilized while shooting my latest short film. He did a "live" digital downconvert to his DVX100A. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 17th, 2005, 08:43 PM	#187
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	iMovie by itself Can anyone give me a hands-on report on editing HDV with just imovie? All discussions here seem to be about FCP and/or only using imovie as a means to another end. Specifically--could one edit a long-form documentary on it? How easy is insert editing? Can you do J,L edits easily? How many audio tracks are available? What does it not have that's considered almost indispensible these days? Bottom line--is it good enough for most documentary projects these days? Thanks

February 17th, 2005, 09:00 PM	#188
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	bottom line... no. Well I guess you "could", but it would be quite the ordeal depending on your workflow. There is quite a difference between the FREE iMovie and the $1000 FCP. If there weren't, nobody would buy FCP. The best thing to do is go visit the info pages for the products and see which one looks like it would fit the bill for you. iMovie Final Cut Express Final Cut Pro

February 17th, 2005, 10:21 PM	#189
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	Didn't someone enter a film at Sundance that was cut on iMovie? There's no way I'd mess with it. Final Cut Express is a pretty good deal at $300. I'd go that route for serious editing.

February 17th, 2005, 10:57 PM	#190
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Lynne, Since AIC is the major bug in the process, cutting directly to imovie will not solve anything. Even the first generation (the capture conversion to AIC) shows artefacting compared to the original file ! I talked to Chris and I will soon post examples of that compression on this forum. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

March 2nd, 2005, 09:10 PM	#191
Simon Harris New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 23	FX-1/Z1 Editing using iMovie? Apparently (according to Apple) the new version of iMovie is HDV compatible and lists the FX-1 as a device it can capture from and edit in HD - does anyone have experience with this? If so does the print to video/timeline playback work in real time to get the material back to the camera via the firewire? If it works it could be an interesting (and affordable! because I don't really want to waste money on FC Express) stop gap for me me until Apple get their act together and release another version of FCP with full HDV compatibility. It's frustrating to have all this nice HD footage and not be able to do some basic editing until June or July when FCP5 appears so iMovie could save the day if it works.

March 2nd, 2005, 09:24 PM	#192
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,800	Sylvain just posted a brief report here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=40426

March 2nd, 2005, 09:32 PM	#193
Simon Harris New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 23	Thanks Boyd - Actually I don't understand the weird French English (then again I can't speak French) and the stuff he is talking about taking a long time for 'conversion'. It either captures from and prints to HDV or it dosent, and to be honest I can't figure out what he is on about - does anyone else have experience with it other than the French dude? Thanks!

March 2nd, 2005, 09:45 PM	#194
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,800	Well I don't work with HDV, but I think he's saying that after you capture from the camera the software has to convert the footage to an editable format, and that takes some time. Then when you export a finished movie back to the camera it has to convert back again which also takes awhile. Or at least that what this "American Dude" thinks... ;-)

March 4th, 2005, 05:05 AM	#195
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	<<<-- Originally posted by Simon Harris It either captures from and prints to HDV or it dosent, and to be honest I can't figure out what he is on about - does anyone else have experience with it other than the French dude? Thanks! -->>> iMovie captures and prints HDV, but does not edit HDV. It captures HDV over firewire, and converts to another codec, properly known as the AppleIntermediateCodec, often abbreviated to AIC. AIC is 4 times HDV's datarate (1m=1GB) but much easier to edit. Conversion starts as you capture, but you have to wait, depending on your computer's speed, for the conversion to catch up. Only a dual 2.5 G5 seems capable of simultaneous realtime conversion. With trivial hacking, the AIC files can be taken from iMovie and loaded into FCP-HD. The process is reversed when recording to the camera/deck, though conversion has to complete before recording to tape begins. Going from AIC to HDV takes MUCH longer (say, x5 realtime on a Dual 2.5). if editing in FCP-HD, then the file must be output to an AIC clip and re-imported to iMovie to record to the camera. Some have complained about bad compression artefacts in AIC footage, it appears to be an inefficient codec given the quality/datarate ratio, given that cineformHD claims much higher quality at similar datarates. To be fair to Sylvain, the above is fairly common knowledge around here, and his review was aimed at people familiar with iMovie's workflow and interested specifically in how a cheap MacMini would cope with HDV. I recommend reading this thread. Smooth iMovie/FCP HD HDV Workflow