Opinion needed on used dual 2.0 g5 possibility at DVinfo.net

Bryan Roberts · March 10th, 2005, 08:47 PM

Hey - don't mean to be a post whore of late, just had some things pop up. An old director I worked with offered to sell me his dual 2.0 g5 which he bought around May because he plans to upgrade to the dual 2.5 (yeah, I don't understand him honestly). The computer is in stock form without any upgrades (160 gig internal drive, 512 megs of ram, don't know the vid card but whatever came base back in May). I'm moving to LA in a few months and am anticipating heavy competition among other freelance editors and want a strong system to hopefully help ease producers concerns over a single proc. g4 system. Questions:

1. Have there been any upgrades to the base form of the dual 2.0 over the past 8 months that would make this not a good purchase option?

2. He hasn't said a price yet and I'm trying to figure out what is a fair amount for it. I'm anticipating the newer g5's in the next several months (just a boost to dual 3.0 g5s and then a price decrease on the dual 2 and 2.5s) and am just not sure what is good to shoot for. I was thinking around $1,800 would be a great deal to get but also would be fair. What do you guys think?

3. Is the dual 2.0 a good move or would it make sense to hold out and hope the newer g5s come out sometime soon bringing down the prices of the current models and just go new?

As always guys, thanks.

Bryan Roberts · March 12th, 2005, 02:59 PM

Anyone?

Rhett Allen · March 12th, 2005, 03:40 PM

They currently sell for $2500 in the basic configuration. I would find out how much he want's for it first. If it were mine I wouldn't sell it for a $700 loss just yet. It still has a ton of usable life in it. If he will sell it for $1800, I'd jump on it. But I wouldn't expect a price that low at least until it becomes the bottom of the line, which it isn't yet (that's the Dual 1.8).
You need to know exactly what model it is. Things to compare are frontside bus speed and maximum RAM capacity as well as included graphics card.
It almost never pays to hold out for the next best thing, just buy what you need. If you need a new computer, buy the best you can afford and start making it pay for itself.

Do you have any reliable information that a Dual 3Ghz is coming out in a few months? Do you know the prices are going to drop accordingly? Do you need a computer right now? There isn't a magic answer, it has to do with what you want and need and can afford. If I had waited for the Quad Processor that was rumored a few years ago, I'd still be waiting, well, I guess I kind of am, but I don't really "need" a new computer just yet. I would "like" one, I don't "need" one.

Here is a site with some specs to compare the different models released.
Dual 2.0Ghz from 6-23-03 to 6-9-04
Dual 2.0Ghz from 6-9-04 to current

Les Wilson · March 12th, 2005, 05:24 PM

The dual 2.0 is perfectly fine. Unlike the 1.8 models, the 2.0 has the same higher speed frontside buss like the 2.5s as well as more memory slots than the 1.8. If you were talking about a 1.8 dualie then you might have something to pick at. AFAIK, there's no difference to speak of between the 2.0 and 2.5 other than processor speed and cooling. THe video cards offered on the 2.0 might matter if you are planning to use Motion. You should check the system requirements for Motion. But, you can always upgrade the card. I'd push him for a good deal. No need for you to pay top dollar.

Also, you may want to contact powermax.com and see what they would by the unit for.

Bryan Roberts · March 12th, 2005, 05:35 PM

Thanks for the info - Rhett you make a good point regarding trying to wait out new technology - I have no reliable source of these new G5's, just normal web hearsay. Ernest, your info was exactly what I was looking for. I checked out powermax.com and wow, they charge some high prices! Tower G4 867 with 512 MB ram and 60 GB internal drive for $1,429!

Thanks guys. I'm going to see if I can get it around 1,800 but we'll see.

Boyd Ostroff · March 12th, 2005, 05:49 PM

Actually I'm thinking about an impulse buy of a G5 system and have been looking at things. According to the specs, Motion will run on any G5 system, including the iMac G5. The graphics card is only an issue on the G4.

I dug through my pile of old MacWorlds and found the G5 reviews in the December 2004 issue. They recommend either the dual 1.8 if you're on a budget, or the dual 2.5 if you can afford it. The reasoning is that the new dual 1.8's have narrowed the performance gap with the 2.0

Quote:

At the other end of the spectrum, now that the base configuration also has dual processors, it’s no longer the relative laggard the entry-level Power Mac used to be: on our Speedmark benchmark, the new dual-1.8GHz system trails the dual-2GHz model by only 8.5 percent

see http://www.macworld.com/2004/09/revi...ndg5/index.php

Based on this, if his system really is "off the shelf" with no extra RAM or anything, I'd spend $200 more and get a new dual 1.8 with the full warranty. That review goes through the differences in the 3 models. The main differences between the 1.8 and 2.0 ghz models seem to be slower PCI slots and only 4 memory slots.

Personally, I don't have the 2.0 on my short list. Assuming I take the plunge it will be either the 2.5 or 1.8...

Les Wilson · March 12th, 2005, 07:21 PM

Well the only thing I would offer is more philosophical. My philosophy is to buy as much system performance as I can afford because some things you just can't/won't upgrade. Performance in your real world usage may in fact be more than what the test shows. Especially when you are doing multiple things simultaneously. Think about the stuff you do during redering or compression.

Also, Faster PCI slots and Front ends go a long way toward keeping your system performing well 3 years from now when the OS and apps have all kinds of bloated features that consume more processor and memory. That's one of the problems with performance tests, they use current OS and applications (they have to). I think the biggest benefit to the extra performance is down the road. Unfortunately, nobody goes back and tests the difference between the Dual 450 and 500 G4s using FCP HD.

Boyd Ostroff · March 13th, 2005, 05:18 PM

Actually I agree with that philosophy Ernest, and after mulling it over I just bought a dual 2.5. It is tough to handle the price jump which is not really proportional to the performance increase though. But I'll keep this machine for years, and won't regret the faster CPU's, better graphics card and extra memory slots when I'm a little farther down the road.

Having said that however, it doesn't seem like the 2.0 is enough of an upgrade from the 1.8 to get very excited about. But of course that becomes a personal thing based on your needs and budget. Buying the best you can possibly afford is a good strategy though.

Les Wilson · March 13th, 2005, 06:48 PM

I happened to be thinking of your situation some more today. I readily grant the difference between 1.8 and 2.0 systems is tough to justify. What occurred to me was that for many editting configurations, the faster PCI bus on the 2.0 and 2.5 would yeild more performance that never shows up in the performance testing. I was thinking that adding another video card to drive an external monitor or another hard disk controller, firewire card etc are all accessories we could add over "the long time" we keep our systems going and they would all benefit from the faster bus.

You made a good decision to go with the 2.5. You lucky duck.

Tooling along on two 2.0's... :-)

Bryan Roberts · March 13th, 2005, 06:52 PM

My thinking was also that the 2.0 includes all the 2.5 internal perks with up to 8 gigs of ram (I don't think I'd ever put in over 4 gigs though) and faster PCI bus speeds minus the obvious processor speed bump. If I can land the dual 2 for a good price, I think I'm going to jump on it - do you have regrets with the 2.0 Ernest?

Les Wilson · March 13th, 2005, 07:18 PM

My only regret is I could not afford the honkering 2.5 that Boyd's gonna have. :-)

I have a 2.0 at home and at a place I volunteer. I have no regrets about the 2.0 and am glad I did not get the 1.8. We have to render (with alot of image filtering) 45 minutes of DV a week after schlepping it off a Firestore DDR. When doing the render alone, it does not consume all the available CPU. But a little later in our workflow, we are simultaneously compressing, exporting audio from DV and uploading to a streaming server. All that consumes all the CPU and I'm glad to have every cycle of those 2.0s pulling the data over the Firewire, cranking the video and getting me finished earlier.

Bryan McCullough · March 13th, 2005, 07:22 PM

Just to chime in, our main editing station at the office is a dual 2.0. I love it. I've never used a 2.5 so I can't compare there, but with about 2.5 GB of RAM it's a solid machine.

Greg Boston · March 13th, 2005, 07:28 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : Actually I'm thinking about an impulse buy of a G5 system and have been looking at things. According to the specs, Motion will run on any G5 system, including the iMac G5. The graphics card is only an issue on the G4.

-->>>

Well Boyd,

Congrats on your upgrade. I can confirm that Motion works fine on the 20" 1.8 IMac G5 as that's what I just bought a month ago. I bought the production suite and what can I say, it's really 'sweet'. Have just completed a small project on a local band using FCP, Livetype, Motion, DVDSP. No problems capturing from the Xl-2 either, as others have alluded to. FWIW, I am only using 512mb at this time.

-gb-

March 10th, 2005, 08:47 PM	#1
Bryan Roberts Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 436	Opinion needed on used dual 2.0 g5 possibility Hey - don't mean to be a post whore of late, just had some things pop up. An old director I worked with offered to sell me his dual 2.0 g5 which he bought around May because he plans to upgrade to the dual 2.5 (yeah, I don't understand him honestly). The computer is in stock form without any upgrades (160 gig internal drive, 512 megs of ram, don't know the vid card but whatever came base back in May). I'm moving to LA in a few months and am anticipating heavy competition among other freelance editors and want a strong system to hopefully help ease producers concerns over a single proc. g4 system. Questions: 1. Have there been any upgrades to the base form of the dual 2.0 over the past 8 months that would make this not a good purchase option? 2. He hasn't said a price yet and I'm trying to figure out what is a fair amount for it. I'm anticipating the newer g5's in the next several months (just a boost to dual 3.0 g5s and then a price decrease on the dual 2 and 2.5s) and am just not sure what is good to shoot for. I was thinking around $1,800 would be a great deal to get but also would be fair. What do you guys think? 3. Is the dual 2.0 a good move or would it make sense to hold out and hope the newer g5s come out sometime soon bringing down the prices of the current models and just go new? As always guys, thanks.

March 12th, 2005, 02:59 PM	#2
Bryan Roberts Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 436	Anyone?

March 12th, 2005, 03:40 PM	#3
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	They currently sell for $2500 in the basic configuration. I would find out how much he want's for it first. If it were mine I wouldn't sell it for a $700 loss just yet. It still has a ton of usable life in it. If he will sell it for $1800, I'd jump on it. But I wouldn't expect a price that low at least until it becomes the bottom of the line, which it isn't yet (that's the Dual 1.8). You need to know exactly what model it is. Things to compare are frontside bus speed and maximum RAM capacity as well as included graphics card. It almost never pays to hold out for the next best thing, just buy what you need. If you need a new computer, buy the best you can afford and start making it pay for itself. Do you have any reliable information that a Dual 3Ghz is coming out in a few months? Do you know the prices are going to drop accordingly? Do you need a computer right now? There isn't a magic answer, it has to do with what you want and need and can afford. If I had waited for the Quad Processor that was rumored a few years ago, I'd still be waiting, well, I guess I kind of am, but I don't really "need" a new computer just yet. I would "like" one, I don't "need" one. Here is a site with some specs to compare the different models released. Dual 2.0Ghz from 6-23-03 to 6-9-04 Dual 2.0Ghz from 6-9-04 to current

March 12th, 2005, 05:24 PM	#4
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	The dual 2.0 is perfectly fine. Unlike the 1.8 models, the 2.0 has the same higher speed frontside buss like the 2.5s as well as more memory slots than the 1.8. If you were talking about a 1.8 dualie then you might have something to pick at. AFAIK, there's no difference to speak of between the 2.0 and 2.5 other than processor speed and cooling. THe video cards offered on the 2.0 might matter if you are planning to use Motion. You should check the system requirements for Motion. But, you can always upgrade the card. I'd push him for a good deal. No need for you to pay top dollar. Also, you may want to contact powermax.com and see what they would by the unit for.

March 12th, 2005, 05:35 PM	#5
Bryan Roberts Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 436	Thanks for the info - Rhett you make a good point regarding trying to wait out new technology - I have no reliable source of these new G5's, just normal web hearsay. Ernest, your info was exactly what I was looking for. I checked out powermax.com and wow, they charge some high prices! Tower G4 867 with 512 MB ram and 60 GB internal drive for $1,429! Thanks guys. I'm going to see if I can get it around 1,800 but we'll see.

March 12th, 2005, 07:21 PM	#7
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Well the only thing I would offer is more philosophical. My philosophy is to buy as much system performance as I can afford because some things you just can't/won't upgrade. Performance in your real world usage may in fact be more than what the test shows. Especially when you are doing multiple things simultaneously. Think about the stuff you do during redering or compression. Also, Faster PCI slots and Front ends go a long way toward keeping your system performing well 3 years from now when the OS and apps have all kinds of bloated features that consume more processor and memory. That's one of the problems with performance tests, they use current OS and applications (they have to). I think the biggest benefit to the extra performance is down the road. Unfortunately, nobody goes back and tests the difference between the Dual 450 and 500 G4s using FCP HD.

March 13th, 2005, 05:18 PM	#8
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,800	Actually I agree with that philosophy Ernest, and after mulling it over I just bought a dual 2.5. It is tough to handle the price jump which is not really proportional to the performance increase though. But I'll keep this machine for years, and won't regret the faster CPU's, better graphics card and extra memory slots when I'm a little farther down the road. Having said that however, it doesn't seem like the 2.0 is enough of an upgrade from the 1.8 to get very excited about. But of course that becomes a personal thing based on your needs and budget. Buying the best you can possibly afford is a good strategy though.

March 13th, 2005, 06:48 PM	#9
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	I happened to be thinking of your situation some more today. I readily grant the difference between 1.8 and 2.0 systems is tough to justify. What occurred to me was that for many editting configurations, the faster PCI bus on the 2.0 and 2.5 would yeild more performance that never shows up in the performance testing. I was thinking that adding another video card to drive an external monitor or another hard disk controller, firewire card etc are all accessories we could add over "the long time" we keep our systems going and they would all benefit from the faster bus. You made a good decision to go with the 2.5. You lucky duck. Tooling along on two 2.0's... :-)

March 13th, 2005, 06:52 PM	#10
Bryan Roberts Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 436	My thinking was also that the 2.0 includes all the 2.5 internal perks with up to 8 gigs of ram (I don't think I'd ever put in over 4 gigs though) and faster PCI bus speeds minus the obvious processor speed bump. If I can land the dual 2 for a good price, I think I'm going to jump on it - do you have regrets with the 2.0 Ernest?

March 13th, 2005, 07:18 PM	#11
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	My only regret is I could not afford the honkering 2.5 that Boyd's gonna have. :-) I have a 2.0 at home and at a place I volunteer. I have no regrets about the 2.0 and am glad I did not get the 1.8. We have to render (with alot of image filtering) 45 minutes of DV a week after schlepping it off a Firestore DDR. When doing the render alone, it does not consume all the available CPU. But a little later in our workflow, we are simultaneously compressing, exporting audio from DV and uploading to a streaming server. All that consumes all the CPU and I'm glad to have every cycle of those 2.0s pulling the data over the Firewire, cranking the video and getting me finished earlier.

March 13th, 2005, 07:22 PM	#12
Bryan McCullough Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 842	Just to chime in, our main editing station at the office is a dual 2.0. I love it. I've never used a 2.5 so I can't compare there, but with about 2.5 GB of RAM it's a solid machine.

March 13th, 2005, 07:28 PM	#13
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff : Actually I'm thinking about an impulse buy of a G5 system and have been looking at things. According to the specs, Motion will run on any G5 system, including the iMac G5. The graphics card is only an issue on the G4. -->>> Well Boyd, Congrats on your upgrade. I can confirm that Motion works fine on the 20" 1.8 IMac G5 as that's what I just bought a month ago. I bought the production suite and what can I say, it's really 'sweet'. Have just completed a small project on a local band using FCP, Livetype, Motion, DVDSP. No problems capturing from the Xl-2 either, as others have alluded to. FWIW, I am only using 512mb at this time. -gb-