audio sync problems with XL1 & XL2

[Steven Zellers]

I used to use an XL1 and could never get my audio & video to sync (mostly 1 hour programs, mac platform, using Final Cut Pro & Final Cut Express, with a LaCie firewire external drive). Since it worked fine bringing the content in from my GL1 I figured it was just a problem importing from my XL1. I video almost all my content on the XL1 and then use the GL1 to bring it into the Powerbook.

I just bought the XL2 and figured that this problem would be solved. It isn't! The tapes are fine and can be brought into Final Cut using the GL1...but are out of sync when using the XL2 (or XL1).

Now I wonder if it is something I am doing. I've been looking at help stuff since 6:30 this morning and have seen other folks have this same sync problem with no apparent remedy.

Any ideas?

thanks
Steve

[Rob Lohman]

This is/was a known issue with FCP (I am however not a Mac or
FCP user!) if I remember correctly. However, I have no idea on
what causes this or how to solve it. I did do search (button in the
upper right corner), restricted it to this forum and searched on: sync

I found these threads in the first two pages:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=20496
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=19611 (has a link to an Apple document as well)

This threads encourages to do some more searching:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=28021

[Steven Zellers]

Thanks. I have already seen those. The first guy left it as he will try more RAM...I have more than double the RAM on a similar set-up and still have the problem. As you read through all the posted solutions I have ruled out the suggestions that have been brought up.

For those that have the same problem....the solution that I have been using that seems to be successful is to first capture the footage in iMovie and then import those files into Final Cut. Everything needs rerendered (which on 2-3 hour productions) is quite time consuming. I would love to just bring the footage directly into Final Cut though.

The next thing that I am going to try is to go with Focus Technologies new hard drive and try going directly to that. I'll wait til the bugs are out...maybe second generation or maybe at least wait until spring. Until that I'll wait until someone comes up with something new for me to try or keep going through iMovie.

Thanks Rob for your searching for me though.
Steve

[Dean Sensui]

How are you capturing your material?

I use an XL1 and haven't had any serious sync problems.

I "log" tapes by marking the beginning and end of the tape, then digitize the logged clip.

I understand that there might be a sync problem with the "capture now" feature, regardless of the camera used as a source.

Hope this helps.

[Steven Zellers]

Now that's one I haven't heard of before.

I do always just use capture, as I shoot 2-3 hour high school productions, concerts, games, speakers, etc with one camera...changing tapes when possible. I then just bring them in with capture, stitch them together, add a few titles, dates & credits, correct color if nec and burn them onto DVD for archive of the event or for coaches, faculty or performers to review. I can't figure out why it works with my GL1 and not my XL1 or XL2. I just tried capturing them with a Sony this weekend. There is an audio sync lag with that also...but not as much as with the XL cameras. Go figure! The tapes are good as I can bring them in through iMovie with no problem with any of the cameras.

I'll try logging them and see what happens.

Thanks Dean

[Rob Lohman]

How did it go Steven?

[Steven Zellers]

Same old sync problem. Thanks anyway.

There is just something dumb that I am doing. I know that if I capture using Firewire from the GL1 to my hard drive that is on my powerbook I can capture with no problem (Final Cut Pro 3 & Final Cut XPress 2 both reside on that Powerbook HD). If I use any of my other cameras (XL1, XL2, Sony DCR-HC85) I have a sync problem. If I capture using ANY of the cameras (including the GL1) to the LaCie drive I have an audio sync problem. I know you shouldn't capture on the same drive as the application resides but that it the only way that it works. If I capture from analog tape (VHS) going through a Sony Codec Media Converter DVMC-DAZ to either of the drives I have no problem...and I don't seem to have a problem capturing using iMovie and then importing those files into either Final Cut Pro or Express...although honestly I haven't done this many times as I usually just use the GL1. I cut the footage in either of the Final Cuts using the built in monitor & audio on the powerbook, add chapter markers, export to iDVD and burn a master DVD.

I checked Apple's website for Qualified devices. The three Canons (GL1, XL1, & XL2 should be set for Firewire Basic and the Sony should be Firewire). Interestingly there were footnotes. On ALL the cameras it states that "this device needed a playback offset for Edit to Tape" (which I don't knowingly do) but all the cameras EXCEPT the Gl1 had the note "this device works best with Print to Video" I don't print to video (that I know of) but it is strange that the one camera that works doesn't have this note...so there must be something different! The only thing that bothers me is hundreds of others out there are making this work with no problems!

Thanks everybody. If anybody sees anything dumb about anything I'm doing just let me know. I know it is something little that I have looked at a million times or just overlooked and it is staring me right in the face.

Steve

_______________________

MY CURRENT CONFIGURATION:

17" 1.5 GHz G4 Powerbook
1.5 GB RAM
OS 10.3.5
80 Gig HD with 61 GB available at the start of a project
L2 cache 512 KB
No Nortons or anti Virus stuff
No putting to sleep or energy saving options selected
Lots of music and graphics software installed
I dump files at the end of every job (but I never reformat the drive as all my apps are on this drive)

LaCie d2 Extreme external drive
250 GB HD with 231.89 GB available at project start (I dump the files at the end of the project but rarely reformat the drive)
running on Firewire 800 port

Now capturing using a Canon XL2
60i (although I just shot last night using 30p for the first time...getting daring!)
16 bit audio
frame setting - drop

Final Cut Pro
DV-NTSC
sequence preset DV NTSC 48 KHz Superwhite
capture preset DV NTSC 48 KHz
frame rate 29.97
Sync adjust movie over 5 minutes - checked
real-time audio mixing 2 tracks
audio playback quality high (although I've tried moving this to low with no apparant change)
autosave vault - checked
save every 60 min
3 copies/project
report dropped frames - checked
abort capture on dropped frames - checked
abort capture on timecode breaks - unchecked

[Steven Zellers]

Just wanted to give a special thanks to Rob for getting me on the right track.

After playing on and off with this problem for the last few weeks and reading just about everything I can find...I have come up with what seems to have been the problem. Because it is long footages that I am shooting, I have the sync over 5 minutes turned on in Final Cut Pro. I did not pre-stripe my tapes, and I do have very fast tape changes to make during a blackout between scenes in plays (or sometimes during a scene in a play) so I don't have time to have long roll-times before I need the tape to be recording. Therefore I was doing batch captures. Rob indicated that I should do log and capture...which I tried with no luck. I'm pretty sure that was because my roll times I had set for 1 second (that was all the time I could spare with the tape I had shot). When I increased the pre and post-roll times to 3 seconds or more I had no more problems and sync is fine.

I am now pre-striping the first 10 seconds of each tape, rewinding for 3 seconds or so (so I have a 5-7 second pre-stripe with a 3-5 second shingle overlap). I am not prestriping the whole tape so I don't have a problem at the end.

When I have a fast tape change I do have to record an additional 3 seconds before removing the tape I just finished (to cover post-roll) and then shoot on the 10 second pre-striped tape to cover the pre-roll. It increases my tape switch time from 10 seconds to 13 seconds, which I'm not in love with...but seems to have solved my sync problems...which I am in love with.

Thanks again Rob for getting me pointed in the right direction.

Steve

[Greg Boston]

Glad you figured it out Steven. I just wanted to add that one of the pleasures I get from the XL-2 is the faster unload/load times. You can't come anywhere close to that on my old XL-1.


-gb-

[Rob Lohman]

Glad you got it solved. This sounds like a real strange problem,
I'll have to ponder on that a bit to fully grasp it I guess.

Perhaps it would be better to always have a couple of times
pre-striped ready? In any case it would also be a good idea to
wind and rewind the tape a bit to make sure it is properly
tensioned (which as you can imagine can untension a lot during
the transport from the factory to the store and any transporting
you will do).

[Jonathan Lutz]

thanks for the help!